advice? what to buy/where to shop

[sbpetrok]

I'm about ready to plunk down money on an Enfield or a Mauser. I'm interested in something as accurate at long range as I can get. Something about buying a "near" tack driver for the price of a dozen boxes of ammo or thereabouts just gives me a woody.

Anyway, I'd like you guys' opinions on:

1) Considering that highly-thought of Mausers (Germans and Swedes) are about 50-80% more expensive than the Enfields, are they worth the premium? (I'm seeing them for ~$125-140 for Enfields, $180-230 for Mausers)

2) If Mauser, Swedish or German? I'm leaning toward the 6.5 x 55...

3) Where would you shop for the gun you recommend? If Enfield, would you consider a Navy Arms gun?

4) Should I apply for my C&R before making this purchase (whichever gun I chose)? In the long run, I can likely see myself with both guns, as well as others of the type. Do Garands ever fall under the C&R guidelines?

I am NOT interested in sporters. Period. I'm not going to be swayed by a few dollars one way or the other, although I am sort of out to earn the ultimate bragging rights at the range - "What? THIS old thing? Well, I do get x inch groups... and I only spent $xxx, can you BELIEVE IT?!!!"

Thanks for your input, I'll post this on the Enfield and Swedish Mauser boards, too. Interested in everyone's comments.

[Richard Simmons]

First off getting your 003 FFL (C&R) opens many doors as far as pricing and availability of firearms. GET IT. Garands are C&R eligible with the exception of the current one Century Arms Int. is selling. It is made with a newly manufactured receiver so it doesn't qualify. Go to the C&R Distributor forum and look at Springfield Sporters,(they don't have a website so you'll need a copy of Shotgun News), BDL Ltd., (Lots of nice Enfields). Navy Arms seem to be OK though I've heard that some of the Enfields they offer have been reworked so they're not original as far as finish goes. HTH

[sbpetrok]

thanks for the good advice. I just mailed my C&R application today!

[REDSTAR]

The #4 MK1 and 2 are both pretty accurate rifles if you get a nice bore and good headspaced rifle. Unfortunately most the big places are out of them. Just keep your eyes open for one.

A swede Mauser will be more accurate than a K98 from what I've read, and you can get a VG from Smaco for about $200.

Here's something to consider-

The Swiss K31 Schmidt Ruben. These are very accurate Swiss rifles with a straight pull back bolt. They are cool. The ammo is around $8 per 20 (7.5 Swiss) but these are beautiful rifles. You can find out more about them in the french swiss italian forum. AIM had two grades available. The lower grade will have some stock wear but the bore will be mirror. Century has good condition for $99.

Out of all these rifles I'd say the Swede and the Swiss are the most accurate. But the action on the Enfields is the best out of all these rifles IMO.

Glad to hear you sent off your license application!

[Schuetzenman]

Ok, my .02 worth now.

Swedish Mausers will probably be the most accurate of any of these surplus military rifles as purchased. It's not uncommon at all to see them shoot 1.5 inch down to 1/2 inch groups. Down side to them is there is no cheap surplus ammo. It starts at about $9 a box and goes up. Good news is the brass is around for $.13 to $.18 per case. More good news Sierra makes many great match grade and hunting grade bullets for them, Remington makes a few bullets too, the 140 gr. PSP is about nine cents each and can be made to shoot 1 MOA or better.

Enfileds, the best shoot about 1.5 MOA but most I've seen actually shoot are in the 3 to 4 inch range. IMO because they are just worn out for the most part. The Brits sure did use their rifles hard. Navy Arms rifles . . . ehhh probably ok. The best looking ones are reworked old ones.

A nice Enfield No. 4 Mk I or II is a great rifle. Finding one in Excellent or even an honest VG condition is very hard to do IMO and you will need to fork over about $180 at minimum. Cheaper ones are going to be rough with worn bores more than likely.

K98k, M48, M48A, Vz 24's, Turks and Persians in 8 mm are all out there. They vary from under $100 to over $300 and up to $500 for an unissued Persian Mauser from Samco Global in Florida.

I find the K98k's a little better feeling and pointing than the M48 Yugo's. The M48's can be found in far better condition than the average K98k. Excellent to new rifles run from $100 to $160 more or less.

VZ24's are tough to find VG to Excellent condition rifles. Very hard use on most of them, bores worn badly at the throat and muzzles in many cases. These turn up sporadically, not always available.

Turk 38's, there are millions of these so it seems but many are very badly worn. If you can get one in VG rated condition go for it. The good condition rifles are anywhere between bright bores and ok looking stocks to black bores so pitted they reduce a cleaning patch to shreaded threads with one pass through the bore. In the case of such rifles they must be rebarreled in order to be safe to shoot. Rebarreling will cost you about $200 to $300, the good condition rifle will cost you $40 more or less. :rolleyes:

K31 Schmidt-Ruben Swiss rifles. Nice rifles, built with Swiss watch maker like quality for the actions and rifles. Most on the market now have badly worn stocks, but excellent bores and VG condition bluing. They can shoot MOA to 2.5 MOA or worse. It just depends on the rifle and how it likes the ammo. Probably bedding related. With the stocks so beat up refinishing them is not a big deal for hurting value. Very slick push pull bolt actions, detachable 6 shot box magazine fed rifles. Power level of the round is = to 7.62 Nato more or less. The std. bullet is a 170 gr. pointed boat tail spitzer running about 2,650 fps. A must have if you are into military rifle collection. They only made about 500,000 of these so they are probably some of the smallest numbers of military rifles ever produced for any country. I really think these will appreciate in value quite a bit in the future as the small numbers made vs. the still very small numbers of rifles imported.

[sbpetrok]

wow! good info, very comprehensive.

THANKS!