Carcano 28 Restoration Project

[neilwest]

1. I lemon oiled and steelwooled the stock and put toung oil on her. She is now drying. I'll post more as she progresses.;)


http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000030187/1000030187_320200272041PM0.2700268.jpg

[zouavexx]

Great Job Neil!

You should go into business!


HONEST NEILWEST'S CUSTOM GUNS ;)

[aliceinchains]

Neilwest what is the purpose of the steel wool.:confused:

[neilwest]

1. 0000 steelwool between coats give you a smooth finish by taking the rough spots out of the finish. It also knocks downt he shine and gives you a more original satin look. My final step is steelwool rub and then a coat of paste wax.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Stop this Neil, now I want a 28 Carbine.:D

Is this the one you ordered from Century? When did it arrive - any cracks, etc.?

Also, does Lemon Oil take out all the dark greasy stuff out of the wood?

[neilwest]

1. I order her from Century and except for dings and wear on the stock, very good condition. It had tons of cosmoline on her but the metal was at 90% and bore is mirror.

2. Not cracks or dings. I ordered the 91 which is on the way now.

3. I used Murphys Soap and 0000 steel wool to get most of the deep laying grease out and the lemon oil to get the preliminary grease off the top.

[Speedfish]

Neil,
what kind of rear site does she have, Is it fixed or leaf tangent?
Thanks,
Speedfish

[neilwest]

1. And to be quite honest with you Ive never seen one quite like it.

http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000030187/1000030187_321200272808PM0.5039179.jpg

[whos2kno]

do you like using tung oil? I have not used that yeat. what does the finish look like? how do you apply it,with a rag or a brush?
whos2kno

[neilwest]

1. I usually only use it on the restore to original projects, It goes on with fingers or cloth, stays on 15 mins, wipe off, set an hour, wipe on again keeping wet for 15 mins, wipe off agian, let set for 24 hours. Then repeat the process as desired. It gives the wood a satin look instead of the harsh poly in your face shine.

2. The best alternative Ive found between tung oil and Tru-Oil is Minwax, oil stain which can be gotten at Lowes. It goes on like tru oil but dries in 2 hours, It has the stain already in it so you can get the look you want and it is an oil so it soaks into the wood and seals as well. It leaves a satin look that is as good as tung oil. The stains come in Rosewood, Red Mahogany and Walnut. It looks like a gel when you wipe it on with a cloth.

3. If you want to get something that is less hassle and equal in appearance and reliablity go with the Min Wax.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Originally posted by neilwest
1. And to be quite honest with you Ive never seen one quite like it.

http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000030187/1000030187_321200272808PM0.5039179.jpg

That figures. Here I'm trying to start a serious Carcano collection and Neil chances upon a friggin Moschetto Guardia del Duce that was designed by Michaelangelo himself!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[neilwest]

1. Does that mean I got lucky again:D :D

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

You can't be serious - OK, where did you steal that picture from?

[neilwest]

1. My lap last night as I shot the picture.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

That is a rifle of one of Mussolini's personal guards.

I have read that there are only 2 known examples of these things. They supposedly have black painted stocks and gelded furniture.

If that's what you have, you're sitting on a fortune.

[neilwest]

1. The rifle was packed in cosmo but it had signs of having been painted black on at one time. It still has sections where the paint was thick and hadnt worn off. Im not sure what you mean by gelded but this is actually the sights and barrel of this rifle.

2. 1929 Terni, with cartouche of the shield and crown on the side, I also saw a graffiti on the side under the buttstock that said Guardia and then cant read the rest.

3. I left the paint on that was there as I dont like to take away from the originality of the gun. It is heavy right under the buttstock and along the trigger guard. When the buttplate is taken off you can see black paint caked up. I assumed someone had painted it and then tried to strip it off later.


4. IM getting excited.:D

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

You may have ruined it by stripping all the black paint off.

Geld means 24 kt gold plated.

Do not touch it anymore until you know exactly what you have from a collector standpoint. I posted this thread on the Italian Forum that the authors of the Carcano homepage visit. I will keep you advised of what they have to say, unless they decide to post here..

[neilwest]

1. As I said it was pretty well stripped before I cleaned it, Alls I did was lemon oil and 0000 steel wool. It will prove interesting to see what I have.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Here is the excerpt from the Carcano Homepage about your rifle"

There are other Carcano variants, but these tend to be extremely rare or conversions of other types. For example, there are the Guardie del Re (King's Guard) and Moschettieri del Duce (Mussolini's Guard) variants, both of which are rare, and are distinguished by the coloring (gilded ornamentation and black stock, respectively), and non-standard stock/bayonet treatments.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Can you get a picture of where it says " Guardia" on the stock, and an overall picture of the rifle?

[zouavexx]

Originally posted by HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin
You may have ruined it by stripping all the black paint off.



Neil,

You have to get that rifle appraised!

The "cherry picker" strikes again!

[biff]

bubba's of the future, leave em be guys. :mad:

[REDSTAR]

The paint was already stripped. He said he just used lemon and tung oil on it.

[Penguin]

Wow sounds like you got quite the rifle especially if there really are only two other ones known.

[neilwest]

1. Its in pieces right now on my computer room floor. When I get home tonight I will post pics of it assembled and in pieces with close up s of the graffiti

[HomerTHX1138]

This is really cool!

Neil, I hope this turns out to be a rare make, obviously, this topic needs to be set to DEFCON 5 (or is it defcon1?) until the facts are known. I'm happy for ya bud!

:cool:

[TheBigCAx]

Incredible piece of history. Wonder what she's worth? The rear site is amazing.

Why you ... (hands reaching for neck) NeilWest!! :)

You are a lucky boy indeed.

[zouavexx]

he he he, This is better than a episode of "ANTIQUES ROADSHOW"



RUMOR MILL: This just in, With his new found wealth Neilwest has just purchased CENTURY ARMS! :)

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

OK, I stand corrected. There exist 11 of these, not two. Here is a thread from another board where I read that:

An interesting side note on the rifle is found in Richard Hobb's book, "The Carcano Italy's Military Rifle", copyright 1996.

According to his book the Oswald/Kennedy assasination rifle was a Model 38 short rifle and was one of a very small procurement for "Guardie Del Duce". This was a very small elite group dedicated to protecting Mussolini and seeing to his safety and well being. One of the features of these rifles was that the stocks were purposely dyed black. As the unit's primary uniforms and equipment was predominately black.

In his book, at the time of publishing, he states that only eleven of this type rifle was known to him. He states that the serial number of the example 38 short rifle in his collection is twenty numbers from the Oswald rifle.

Interesting book, pretty good info and a good read in its own right.

[Richard Simmons]

and Neil where does your's come in relation to it?

[AKWARRIOR]

This is a good example of why I dont "Restore" rifles like this unless its completely unshootable and useless in its current state.Even doing somthing so little as cleaning up a stock,House furniture,Etc.... can ruin the value of somthing so rare.I really hope you didnt destroy a valuable piece of history.:(


Regards,

[carcano]

Hello. Since this is the first time that I show up in these fora, I feel I might as well introduce myself. One of the regulars here lured me over from the "Italian Firearms" board at Tuco's gunboards. Gaetano Liberatore and yours truly (Alexander Eichener) are the authors and maintainers of the Carcano Website and its adjunct database.

In the last year, more info on the Moschettieri del Duce has surfaced (thanks to Dionigi Maladorno and to a recent Italian gun magazine article). They were only issued Moschetti per cavalleria, never anything else. Dick Hobbs was not correct. The Guardia del Re (and lateron the corazzieri{del Presidente} used special Moschetti TS which partially resemble Vetterli-Vitali carbines.

The Moschetto which Neil so ably is restoring and rehabilitating now, is not any special model: is an ordinary Moschetto TS 91/28. Sorry to disabuse you of the illusion of a treasure :-). Although they still can be found: I recently steered Gaetano to a Fucile 1938 with the rare "first model" stock (I found it in the backroom of a gunshop), which he was able to buy for only $ 65. :-)

Best regards,
Alexander Eichener
carcano91@hotmail.com

[zouavexx]

Originally posted by carcano
The Moschetto which Neil so ably is restoring and rehabilitating now, is not any special model: is an ordinary Moschetto TS 91/28.

Welcome to the board, Carcano! We all hope you stick around :)



Poor Neil, a fortune made and lost in less than 12 hours...:rolleyes:

[whos2kno]

cool we are learning alot from this
whos2kno
welcome aboard Carcano!

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Thank you Alex, and thanks for all the effort you've made with the Carcano Webpage.

Sorry, Neil, I was wrong.

Alex, is there something definitive to look for in one of these rifles, and is there a possibility of getting one of these from Albania? I know you live in Germany, but are probably familiar with the fact that Century is bringing these rifles into the US from Albania, and we don't know how/why they got there. I heard that the CIA contract 6.5 Carcano ammunition made by W-W was made for Greece in 1949 for a possible communist fight in Albania. Did Italy ship all the Carcanos over there after WWII, or did the Russians bring them in from WWII captures?

BTW, for anyone interested, here is the Carcano Webpage:

http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~glibera1/carcano/

[PBR]

Well Well Well....you went and done it !
You went and Bubba'd a rare priceless historical relic !
There must be a lesson in there somewhere.:(

[neilwest]

1. Actually Im relieved, now I can shoot it and have some fun. Even though I bubbaized it she is still a beautiful weapon.:D

[carcano]

Originally posted by HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin
but are probably familiar with the fact that Century is bringing these rifles into the US from Albania, and we don't know how/why they got there. I heard that the CIA contract 6.5 Carcano ammunition made by W-W was made for Greece in 1949 for a possible communist fight in Albania. Did Italy ship all the Carcanos over there after WWII, or did the Russians bring them in from WWII captures?

BTW, for anyone interested, here is the Carcano Webpage:

http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~glibera1/carcano/

Most likely, these are the WW II guns which the Italian troops left in Albania. Italy definitely did not sell them to the communist Albanian regime; the Italian surplus stocks were sold in various batches on the civilian market between the late 1950s and mid-1970s. Some ended up in the USA, many more in Germany. As to Russia, I suppose that some Carcanos still remain there.

Regards,
Alexander

[aliceinchains]

carcano,
Thank's for coming over and educating us.And welcome to the gun board.:)