Why you should collect French Rifles

[Richard Simmons]

Besides the low cost and excellent condition of the current crop of 49/56 rifles consider the following. As far as semiauto battle rifles go the French probably made the least of any major power. Consider the MAS 44, made from 1945-49 (6,200 rifles). The MAS 49 made from July of 1949 (though the finalized rifle didn't enter full production until 1951), until 1957 with 20,600 rifles produced. Finally there is the MAS 49/56 of which 275,200 were made from 1957 to 1970. Roughly 300,000 rifles covering three different models over a 25 year period. When you figure that some of these were lost to the Viet Cong at Dien Bien Phu as well as normal wear, tear, lose and theft how many were left to surplus out? I'm sure not all of them came to the US of A and of those that did some like the 49/56 were converted to 7.62x51. IMO the MAS 44, 49, 49/56 rifles represent an interesting, inexpensive (relatively speaking) and enjoyable family of firearms that are also somewhat few in number. Will selling one in 15 years put one of your childfren through college? Probably not but don't let that stop you from trying one out.

The preceding post was a blatant attempt to get you to try something new in firearms collecting. Can't blame a Cruffler for trying.:D

[srv656s]

OK, you got me interested...... Where and how much?

Shawn

[zouavexx]

Too bad the ammo is prohibitively expensive.

[HomerTHX1138]

Intresting thread and food for thought.

I've bought stocks that have gone up and some that have gone down in value over the years. But, think about how stable firearms are in value, especially items made long ago never to be made again...

Even if they don't appreciate you can enjoy them. Try taking a stock certificate out for fun. :confused: :tinfoil: :p

[whos2kno]

thanks for the heads up
whos2kno

[Gonzotwp]

No convincing needed hear, I already have a 36 and a 49/56. As for the ammo, that's one of the many reasons I love RELOADING!!

Regards

Gonzo :D :D :D

[alfajim]

Same here a 36 and a 49/56 and about 400 rds of ammo left.

[RetVet]

I got one two weeks ago. Was actually looking to order a CZ 52 (I've been on a "Warsaw Pact" binge lately), but saw that 49/56 sitting there and just couldn't leave without it. $200 complete with all the trimmings. I guess I'll have to find a 36 now to keep it company!

[Richard Simmons]

For a MAS36 try www.classicarms.com

Ignore the website as it's probably outdated. I got an EX for under $70 and it is quite nice. Email them or call. I haven't seen them advertised for a while but they may stilll have some.

[sfc ret]

Why you should collect French Rifles?

never fired, and only dropped once.

[Richard Simmons]

Originally posted by srv656s
OK, you got me interested...... Where and how much?

Shawn

Shawn, try SOG and/or Century for the MAS 49/56. I got mine on sale last summer/early fall from SOG for $210. Right now they should be around $200-240.

[neilwest]

1. Though I admit I havent shot it yet, I bought mine from SOG and am extremely happy with the quality of the rifle. The ammo is not that cost prohibitive. I would think 50 rounds a month would not tax the average buyer, after all thats a good bit considering its a C & R and more to be loved then shot.;)

[Richard Simmons]

Another good reason is that U.S. produced ammo will be available very soon from Hornady as well as unprimed brass. The ammo is fairly expensive at $1.00 a round but IMO it will go down in price as the setup costs are recouped. The brass is about .25 ea and will make for pretty economical reloading. I believe that the availability of U.S. ammo and components will bring about a new interest in the MAS rifles. Expect prices to increase and availability to decrease. The MAS 49/56 still represents a remarkable value in a Main Battle Rifle caliber firearm. All things being what they may, shouldn't you be looking for one to add to your collection?:)

[cheapshooter]

A MAS 49/56 was my first C&R purchase. Right after I got my license last June. It is GREAT!!!!! I ordered it from SOG for $219.00 and am extreamly pleased. I ordered 3 (20 Rnd) boxes of ammo from Empire to try it out and it shot, and functioned perfect. As far as ammo, reloading will lower the cost a lot. You probably won't want to "rattle battle " off a couple hundred rounds like cheap 7.62X39 stuff, but some times it is fun to set up real bullseye targets and slow down a little. I an sorry I didn't get in on those like new MAS 36 rifles for a cheap price back before I had my C&R. Now all I see are at gunshows for $125.00-$150.00 and they look like junk. Hopefully, the more the 49/56 sells the better chance of someone like S&B tooling up and making some good, inexpensive ammo.
One note I want to pass on about handloading for the French Auto, and probably any millitary auto for that matter. Use millitary spec primers like CCI M34. I read a post a while back about a MAS 49/56 slam fireing with handloads, and the answer was that the fireing pin and spring in military rifles are much heavyer to make sure the go "boom" and they can actually dent a standard thickness primer cup enough for ignition.

[Richard Simmons]

Originally posted by cheapshooter
A MAS 49/56 was my first C&R purchase. Right after I got my license last June. It is GREAT!!!!! I ordered it from SOG for $219.00 and am extreamly pleased. I ordered 3 (20 Rnd) boxes of ammo from Empire to try it out and it shot, and functioned perfect. As far as ammo, reloading will lower the cost a lot. You probably won't want to "rattle battle " off a couple hundred rounds like cheap 7.62X39 stuff, but some times it is fun to set up real bullseye targets and slow down a little. I an sorry I didn't get in on those like new MAS 36 rifles for a cheap price back before I had my C&R. Now all I see are at gunshows for $125.00-$150.00 and they look like junk. Hopefully, the more the 49/56 sells the better chance of someone like S&B tooling up and making some good, inexpensive ammo.
One note I want to pass on about handloading for the French Auto, and probably any millitary auto for that matter. Use millitary spec primers like CCI M34. I read a post a while back about a MAS 49/56 slam fireing with handloads, and the answer was that the fireing pin and spring in military rifles are much heavyer to make sure the go "boom" and they can actually dent a standard thickness primer cup enough for ignition.

Those 49/56 are great. The use of hard primers is a very good idea. The French modified the firing pin in the 7.62x51 models they made for just this reason, soft primers on US ammo. If I might correct you, the 49/56 has no firing pin spring which is part of the problem. I've read of a modification where the spring from a BIC ink pin is used to make a firing pin spring. Some folks have lathe turned their pins to reduce the weight while others have made new pins from Titanium. I figure on going with the hard primers as you suggested. Once again welcome to the forum

[Skip]

Sorry guys but I can't get into those marvels of French and Italian armament engineering. I guess it's like beer. You need to acquire a taste for it.

[MrSkelington]

I would love one, but a 10shot mag makes a MAS56 into an "E Catagory" weapon and requires a license endorsement.
If it was only the $200 cost of the endorsement to overcome, no problem, but then theres the $800 gunsafe that has to be bolted to your floor and wall.. and I'm renting.
As a matter of interest, here in NZ, the features that seperate an "A Cat" (standard license) semi auto into an "E Cat MSSA" weapon is one or more of the following ;
A magazine capacity of more than 7rds or ; a free standing pistol grip or ; a folding stock or ; a fixed bayonet or lug for a fixed bayonet or ; a flash suppressor.
Most police arms officers refuse to reclassify an E Cat weapon into an A Cat even when the aforemention features have been removed/changed.
Theres some useless information to fill your day!

P.S. can you get MAS magazines of smaller capacity? Would it be sacrilige to cut one down?

[zouavexx]

...and we complain about how restrictive things are here in America! I always thought NZ was gun friendly. :(

[MrSkelington]

It used to be! Before the 1983 Arms Act, and the 1996 Arms Amendment :(

[T2K]

MrSkelington,

What you posted regarding NZ gun control laws exactly matches what my Kiwi mate here told me.

However, there is a guy I see on the Norinco AK forum(Prashanta) who's always going on about picking up selective fire AK's in NZ. In fact, he's got a post up there right now with alleged pictures of his AK's. Not sure I believe him based on what I've heard. My mate here says getting an AK, even a semi-auto one, in NZ is nearly impossible.

Just curious.

[Tomac Yokctep]

Getting on the subject of slam fires with my 49/56 shooting French GI ammo no problem ,shooting FNM ammo slam fires not a lot just two slam fires out of 40 rds. :rolleyes:

[John Lapin]

My first high powered rifle when I was a wee lad was an 8mm Lebel. It was about as long as I was tall and I could only shoot it by resting the barrel on a fence post. I never hunted with it but it was fairly accurate. The bottle necked ammo was a little hard to come by and I traded it for a Krag. I have nothing for or against French rifles. There are so many interesting rifles in the world that I may never get around to finding another Fench riflel.

[Richard Simmons]

Welcome to the forum John. Any relation to Terence Lapin the author?

[John Lapin]

Don't know the gentleman. Based upon the name, I am sure he is a most excellent author!

Thanks for the welcome.

[probasco]

its easy to find one in "unfired" condition.

[Richard Simmons]

Originally posted by probasco
its easy to find one in "unfired" condition.


Actually a truely "Unfired" MAS rifle of any type would be a great find. the majority of "Unfired" rifles in circulation are "Unfired" since rearsenal.

[BYF44]

I'd love a semi auto FAMAS .223

[Richard Simmons]

IIRC there were some made/imported in the US. Probably prior to 1994. "Le Clarion", or the Bugle as it's called by the troops who carry it. Wonder if it takes AR type mags?

[Bettendorf]

FAMAS takes AR mags.

[Alexei]

I fired my "new" MAS-49/56 yesterday. What a blast. I went to the range primarily to sight my M-4 clone ( Colt LEC), and figured I'd run a few rounds thru the 49/56 to blow out the parkerizing in the bore. I was so surprised to find that the 49/56 shot as well as the M-4, and because of the weight/ratio I didn't notice any difference in recoil to speak of. A moderator at another portion of this sight chided me for trading in my CETME for my MAS, and mentioned possible cycling difficulties with FNM ammo. I found not even the slightest hint of that, with positive feed and ejection. I love my French rifles !!!

[Richard Simmons]

Congrats. I've been shooting the early Indep MAS ammo in my 49/56 for years now and have never had a double or any other issue with it. Once I start reloading the brass I may go to a No. 32 primer just to make sure I don't have any problems. Let us know how that bore cleans up.

[awp101]

Why collect French rifles?

To get the complete waffenamt stamp collection!:p

:lol:

[Alexei]

Are you suggesting the French are collaborates ?

[awp101]

Are you suggesting the French are collaborates ?
Nah, just cheese eating surrender monkeys...:lol:

I can't believe RS hasn't popped back in yet....:D

[Richard Simmons]

Eye ave your cheese ewe steenky leetle fellow. :slap:

[awp101]

I'm not going to ask from whence said cheese will originate...:eek:

:lol:

[coppertales]

I might let you shoot one of mine if we hook up one of these days at the range.........chris3

[awp101]

Actually I used to have a MAS36 but it never really did anything for me...

[RetVet]

Looks like I have 0.00001% of the total made. Sorry to say, but I've yet to shoot any of my 49 or 49/56's yet. Maybe next year.

[Alexei]

All I've got to say is, if ya shoot 'em, you get to appreciate 'em. The 49/56 is strong and simple. The French might be assholes, but they are pragmatic assholes.

[RattInnaCage]

I've been trying to get a nice Frenchy in 7.5 for quite a while now. Guess having 6 different calibers isn't enough :

Saw a beautiful semi-auto that looked just about unused on Dennis Krohs new gun page, but someone else all ready had dibbs on it.

On the other hand, there's always tomorrow.

[Alexei]

I just posted a note about a really nice MAS-44 I saw yesterday, but it was probably priced a little high at $650. They are scarce though, and I wouldn't really consider it a "shooter" in the sense that it's probably not as good as a 49/56, and each shot would probably diminish it's value, at least theorectically. The 49/56 I have is one of the best shooting mil-surps I have ever owned. Plus, as others here have said, where else can you for $400. or so, find a "assault" rifle that is powerful, accurate, comes with night sights, flash hider, bayonet, is parked and with essentially new wood. Expensive ammo is the only real downside. PS-buy a copy of "Proud Promise", from Collector Grade Publicaions. It will turn you into a believer. Regards.,

[richboise]

New to Guns Network and this forum and can't find any links to archived threads on the MAS 49/56.
Just bought a MAS 49/56 with a bunch of accessories, and naturally have questions.
First is year of manufacture. Serial number is G792XX, with what I assume to be a rebuild date depicted as P84 inside box.
Second is disassembly instructions. Manual that came with rifle only details field stripping. I would like to break it down at least into the major components for a good cleaning, and checking serial numbers.
Already converted a few screwdrivers to take apart my MAS 36, so I have a bit of a start.
Any info greatly appreciated.

Richard

[EspeciallyforSmokeless]

My first high powered rifle was an 1886 Lebel 8mm. It took a trip to San Francisco's legendary "Gun Exchange" to find ammo for it. I was about twelve and the rifle was almost the same length I was, or so it seemed. After getting the grease out of the barrel whick seemed to take about six months given the length of the thing, my father took me out to try it. It knocked me back at first but I got the hang of it. It has been downhill ever since.

You know, all those cracks about "only dropped once" display a remarkable lack of knowledge of history. There are a lot of Germans buried in France and Belgium with 8mm Lebel rounds stuck in them. There are a lot of Touaregs (no, not VWs) buried in North Africa with the same bullet hole.

Anyway, sorry to be on a soap box but the Army of France is worthy of more respect than they often receive from us Americans.

[KYFHO]

Why collect French rifles?

To get the complete waffenamt stamp collection!:p:lol:


(just slightly off-topic... why are the streets of Paris lined with so many trees? So the Germans can march in the shade!)
:winkkiss:


Now... back to your regularly scheduled thread...

French rifles:

About 2 years back I picked up a little MAS36 in .308. Handy little shooter for under $100 is always hard to beat. Got it to use when I reenact Viet-Minh/PLAF.

The built-in pig-sticker is good for roasting marshmellows and hotdogs too.

[EspeciallyforSmokeless]

[QUOTE=KYFHO](just slightly off-topic... why are the streets of Paris lined with so many trees? So the Germans can march in the shade!)
:winkkiss:


I realize the popular belief in this country is that the French were too cowardly to resist the Germans in 1940. The fact that the French Army was ordered to lay down by Marshall Petain is forgotten. Many French collarborated with the Germans. Many fought in the underground or fled to join the Free French Army of Generals de Gaulle and Le Claire. Often too, the heroics of Verdun and the half million or so causalties from WWI are forgotten.

Also, remember that France is not protected by two oceans. The Germans were next door. Now, in our situation Mexico is invading the U.S. successfully. We seem to be powerless to resist. Does that make us like the French?

[KYFHO]

I realize the popular belief in this country is that the French were too cowardly to resist the Germans in 1940. The fact that the French Army was ordered to lay down by Marshall Petain is forgotten. Many French collarborated with the Germans. Many fought in the underground or fled to join the Free French Army of Generals de Gaulle and Le Claire. Often too, the heroics of Verdun and the half million or so causalties from WWI are forgotten.

Also, remember that France is not protected by two oceans. The Germans were next door. Now, in our situation Mexico is invading the U.S. successfully. We seem to be powerless to resist. Does that make us like the French?


The French GOT exactly what was coming to them for cozying up with the British to impose the ridiculously harsh (European standards) terms of the Versailles Treaty. Also the German High Command (mostly still Prussian) still harbored ill-will over the depradations visited upon them by Napoleon.


As for the situation with immigrants from Mexico - it is a by-product of two conditions equally equally to blame and both being natural consequences of US policy.

1. Domestic welfare policy that subsidies lazy unproductive behavior from a large block of it's own population who are are rewarded to stay at home instead of face the "work vs. starvation" equation. This opens up a large block of needed tasks for which there is no domestic resource to fill.

2. Foreign Policy that continues to reward graft & corruption from a revolving door of Oligarchal careerists who run the show in mexico City solely to enrich themselves and their favored constituents. If you are not of pure Castillion blood or even mixed heritage then you are a despised non-entity to the Government of Mexico. The US props up this ruling caste by funneling BILLIONS of your tax dollars straight into their pockets through foreign aid and international loan guarantees.

This condition is exacerbated by a convoluted bureaucratic system of immigration and citizenship controls that limits how many can apply for legal status each year and forces the average applicant to spend 5-10 years and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to specialized immigration attorneys to process the Byzantine labyrinth of laws and regulations. I actually admire the average "illegal immigrant" who will risk untold hardship to come here and work just to feed a family that is destitute there than the army of do-nothings that populate American cities and sponge off the productive tax payer and then dare to cry that it is not enough- bull hockey on them!

:rant:

[my-rifle]

[QUOTE=KYFHO](just slightly off-topic... why are the streets of Paris lined with so many trees? So the Germans can march in the shade!)
:winkkiss:


I realize the popular belief in this country is that the French were too cowardly to resist the Germans in 1940. The fact that the French Army was ordered to lay down by Marshall Petain is forgotten. Many French collarborated with the Germans. Many fought in the underground or fled to join the Free French Army of Generals de Gaulle and Le Claire. Often too, the heroics of Verdun and the half million or so causalties from WWI are forgotten.

Also, remember that France is not protected by two oceans. The Germans were next door. Now, in our situation Mexico is invading the U.S. successfully. We seem to be powerless to resist. Does that make us like the French?

I guess these people don't stop to think that the French were far better prepared for war in 1939 than were the Americans. I guess they forget that Paris is a few hours' drive from the German border. They probably don't recall that Hitler in 1943 said that the French would be Germany's biggest headache after the war was won. They probably don't recall Bir Hakiem or the fact that the only reason the British were able to claim victory in North Africa over Rommel was because the Free French held Bir Hakiem against unbelievably overwhelming odds long enough for the British to retreat and save their asses to fight another day - at El Alemein where Rommels' forces, tremendously depleted by their losses at Bir Hakiem were unable to meet the strength of the British forces that had been saved by the sacrifice of the French.

They may well forget French General Philippe Morillon, the hero of Srebrenica in 1993 when the United States was too cowardly to help the civilians abandoned there. He rode the lead vehicle out of town on mined roads daring the Serbs to kill him. He rescued a butt-load of innocent civilians from the Serbs.

They probably also forget that if it hadn't been for the French intervention in the War of American Independence that we would be English subjects today.

Don't underestimate the French. They're some tough SOB's.

[tinmanIA]

Why you should collect French Rifles?

never fired, and only dropped once.
:funnypost


(just slightly off-topic... why are the streets of Paris lined with so many trees? So the Germans can march in the shade!)
:winkkiss:


Now... back to your regularly scheduled thread...




Am I the only one that doesn’t talk shit about the French…well I hear there women don’t shave there pits but otherwise I don’t have any argument. By the way thanks for the help in the revolution, we’ll prolly be asking for the help again. I love French weapons, and German, and US, and Egyptian, and Israeli weapons, and Israeli women… there hot, and mean I like that. Tell your women to shave there pits you’ll thank me I already know it.

[my-rifle]

You know, that particular stereotype is one that I've never understood. Very few French women don't shave. The overwhelming majority do just as the American women do. They also use deodorant and shower regularly and seem a bit disgusted by those who don't.

I go to France every year or so for vacations. The different regions of France are as different from each other as the parts of the U.S., having in common a love for France, family, and food. Internationally they're fairly indifferent, and as far as I've been able to tell, have no particular grudge against the U.S. or its people for any reason at all. Most that I talk to understand that nations and governments often have to do things that are unsavory, and that though the citizens may support their nation and government, it doesn't mean they necessarily agree with every decision their governments make.

Whenever possible I bring with me people who dislike the French. They always come back changed. Only twice in my travels in France have I run across people who were butt-heads. Once it was a guy in front of me on the road who was pissed off because I had my bright lights on, and yelled at me for being a "stupid American", but then he couldn't figure out how to turn off the brights - on the Renault I was renting. Heh, heh. The second time was a woman in Paris who thought I was trying to pick her up. She said she disliked "les etrangers" - foreigners. Generally though the French people I've met have been helpful, friendly, and trusting, and they seem to think of the United States as their experiment in democracy - that worked.

[Sturmgeschütz]

Oh, and about the French semi-autos...last couple gun shows I've been too, there were a couple 49/56's in the $500-700 range.

sheesh.

[Richard Simmons]

It's easy to bash what you know nothing about. :no:


P.S. It sure dosen't seem like it's been 7 years ago the I started this thread. Man does time fly or what?