my letter to Levi "socialist" Strauss

[bigblackgun]

I thought you all might get a kick out of this. I decided to email Levi, and they replied.


----- Original Message -----
From: <levistrauss@levi.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: General/Product-related question from le


> Hi:
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Consumer feedback is
> very important to us and we appreciate you taking the time to express
> your opinions on this issue.
>
> For several years, Levi Strauss & Co. has focused on empowering
> youth to make social change on issues they care about. A leading
> concern among youth is the increase in gun violence, which is
> responsible for killing more American children than all natural causes
> combined (11 children every day).
>
> We hope to take a leadership position on this issue by supporting
> PAX, a non-profit anti-violence organization, dedicated to the vision
> of a society free of gun violence. Levi Strauss & Co. supports
> PAX's goal to bring all Americans together to support common sense
> solutions to the gun violence epidemic.
>
> If you'd like more information about the PAX organization, please
> visit their web site at www.paxusa.org.
>
> Thank you again for sharing your views with us. We respect your
> individual opinion, your comments will be communicated to the
> appropriate management personnel for their review and information.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Lana
> Levi Strauss & Co.
> lanmoo2298640
>
> --------------------< you wrote >--------------------
>
>
> To whom it may concern, I wanted you ( Levi Strauss and Comp.) to
> know that I recently found out about your companys anti firearm
> view's and of your support of the anti gun lobby's agenda. In light of
> this fact, My family will not be purchaseing any of your products ever
> again in our lifetime. Furthermore I will be sure to let everyone I
> know how you stand on the second amendment of our constitution,
> the very constitution that our soldiers and emergency workers die for
> regularly to protect.
>

So what do you think? Dont be afraid, let me know.

[db3443]

What was the e-mail address you sent your letter to? I'd be happy to send one like that to them too. Maybe we can get some of the other members of this board to do the same!
Also I sent one to the Target dept. store chain asking why they didn't carry any hunting items in thier sporting goos dept. and they told me it was because they didn't think they could make any money doing that. I replied that Wal-mart and K-Mart seemed to do pretty well with it and then I asked them if they didn't carry those types of items because they are anti-hunter and aanti-gun.
Funny.....they never bothered to reply to that!

[bigblackgun]

All I did was go to Levi's web site and under the help section there is a contact us section. Dont give them any of your personal info though. I agree that if more people would stand up and write and complain to these companys, they would get the message loud and clear. Thats what happened with KMart and the firing of rosie o'dumbell. I believe that most gun owners are quiet about how they feel, but you know the saying "squeaky wheel gets the grease". We need to bombbard them just like the "anti gunners" do to us. :rant: Anyway thanks for the reply.

[Twisted Cross]

Thanks, Bigblackgun! I'll be sending one myself.

[db3443]

I e-mailed Levi's and I got the exact same reply that you got! Big surprise!


Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Consumer feedback is
very important to us and we appreciate you taking the time to express
your opinions on this issue.

For several years, Levi Strauss & Co. has focused on empowering
youth to make social change on issues they care about. A leading
concern among youth is the increase in gun violence, which is
responsible for killing more American children than all natural causes
combined (11 children every day).

We hope to take a leadership position on this issue by supporting
PAX, a non-profit anti-violence organization, dedicated to the vision
of a society free of gun violence. Levi Strauss & Co. supports
PAX's goal to bring all Americans together to support common sense
solutions to the gun violence epidemic.

If you'd like more information about the PAX organization, please
visit their web site at www.paxusa.org.

Thank you again for sharing your views with us. We respect your
individual opinion, your comments will be communicated to the
appropriate management personnel for their review and information.

Sincerely,

Liberty
Levi Strauss & Co.
libdim2300508

--------------------< you wrote >--------------------
Email: db6699@hotmail.com
First Name: Donald
Last Name: Butcher
Dear Sir/Madam,
I was informed that the Levi Strauss Co. supports the anti-gun
agenda. While I feel that Levi makes quality garments, I must inform
you that my family will no longer be purchasing any of your products
because of this. My wife, children, and I feel very strongly about the
second amendment to the constitution and we will not put our money
into any company that will use that money to try and erode our
constitutional rights. Many good men and women have given thier
lives to protect and honor that constitution and we will not dishonor
them by supporting, even indirectly, such efforts as you support.
Thank you



Lets see if we can get more gun owners to let them know how we feel!

:soapbox:

[Sesh]

I stopped buying Levi products years ago when they stopped supporting the Boy Scouts of America due to the Scouts exclusion of homosexuals from their organization. But I'll send them a complaint regarding their view on firearms anyway.

[Twisted Cross]

db3443, I used some of your letter in mine, let's see if they reply to me.


Dear Levi's corporation,


I was informed that the Levi Strauss Co. supports an anti-gun
agenda. While I feel that Levi makes quality garments, I must inform
you that I will no longer be purchasing any of your products
because of this. I feel very strongly about the second amendment to
the constitution and I will not put our money
into any company that will use that money to try and erode our
constitutional rights. Many good men and women have given thier
lives to protect and honor that constitution and we will not dishonor
them by supporting, even indirectly, such efforts as you support.
I find it shameful as Levi's has been a huge part of this country's history
that they would turn their back on history and freedom in support a skewed
socialist cause to take American rights away.

Thank you

XXXX XXXXX

Don't bother sending your usual form letter either, I have seen it already as referenced below.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Consumer feedback is
very important to us and we appreciate you taking the time to express
your opinions on this issue.

For several years, Levi Strauss & Co. has focused on empowering
youth to make social change on issues they care about. A leading
concern among youth is the increase in gun violence, which is
responsible for killing more American children than all natural causes
combined (11 children every day).

We hope to take a leadership position on this issue by supporting
PAX, a non-profit anti-violence organization, dedicated to the vision
of a society free of gun violence. Levi Strauss & Co. supports
PAX's goal to bring all Americans together to support common sense
solutions to the gun violence epidemic.

If you'd like more information about the PAX organization, please
visit their web site at www.paxusa.org.

Thank you again for sharing your views with us. We respect your
individual opinion, your comments will be communicated to the
appropriate management personnel for their review and information.

Sincerely,

Liberty
Levi Strauss & Co.
libdim2300508

[db3443]

Thats great! I am very interested in what thier reply will be! And thanks for informing me about thier sdtand on the Scouts! I am a scout leader myself and will make sure everyone in our pack knows about this!

[joseyj]

Their statistics are either an outright lie (and in contradiction to
the unassailable evidence presented in "More Guns, Less Crime")
or a delusion. A delusion is a fixed false belief contrary to all logical argument or proof and is indicative of psychosis. Levi's, I feel, being the part of Americana that they are, would not lie...
so they must just simply be psychotic.

[KINGSkalar]

"For several years, Levi Strauss & Co. has focused on empowering
youth to make social change on issues they care about. A leading
concern among youth is the increase in gun violence, which is
responsible for killing more American children than all natural causes
combined (11 children every day). "

Its a delusion. Skewed Statistics that haven't even been thought about logically enough to reach their absurd conclusion.


how many children die of natural causes? What are natural causes? a heart attack? stroke? thats all I can think of.. Children just don't normally die of natural causes.


One more Delusion in the world clarified.
-Skalar

[Twisted Cross]

KINGSkalar,

Are you saying statistics are right? Your post is a little confusing as to what your declaring. Just wondering.

[NOTPARS]

For BigBlackGun:

I was already mad at Levi for its anti-Boy Scouts pro-homosexual stance, now this is even worse! My wife likes Levi but I won't let her buy them. Now, I am going to intensify my boycott and share your information with others. Thanks!

[NOTPARS]

Levi's 11 kids a day statistic is a lie as well as their claim handguns/firearms kill more kids than any other method. I recently wrote to the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Atlanta Center For Disease Control. Cars, drowning, and other methods are way out in front of handguns/firearms.

[Twisted Cross]

Drowning!

A couple of years ago we had a rash of drownings in pools around here about 7 in one week. My best friends step-son was the only kid that week to survive out of the 7. They went to a little leauge championship party. The coach had a pool and all the parents were there and tons of them were watching the pool too. He just fell in while 20 or so kids were splashing about in the pool. No one noticed for a few minutes and then someone saw him laying at the bottom. Life can change so quickly, but the drowning thing always gets me every summer.

[KINGSkalar]

Ok, let me clarify.

the email said

"A leading
concern among youth is the increase in gun violence, which is
responsible for killing more American children than all natural causes
combined (11 children every day). "

as I pointed out before, and may not have explained well, is that those statistics could be correct.

but , they are most definately MISLEADING.

They are misleading in saying "NATURAL CAUSES".

Drowning in a pool isn't a natural cause of death.

Neither is dying in a car accident.

a natural cause of death is a stroke, heart attack .. cancer?


Children don't die of a stroke or heart attack. They die from DROWNING, and car accidents. and a very small number die from 'gun violence'... remember, the statistic they give us is "11 children every day"


Also, what do they consider 'children' ?
11 children everyday...
11* 30 = 330 a month
330 * 12 = 3960

that seems inflated.. anybody up to the task of finding out wether they consider
21-year olds as children?


CDC confirms the leading causes of death in children are
"Overall, motor vehicles, fires/burns, drowning, falls, poisoning"

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/childh.htm

notice firearms are only mentioned as a side note.. hard to spot.

far cry from 'leading cause'..

So, what they said could very well be true. Firearms Do cause more deaths than all natural causes in children.... but.. 5-gallon buckets of water cause more deaths in children than all natural causes, too.


hope that cleared it up.
-Skalar

[Twisted Cross]

KINGSkalar,

That's cool man, I hope I didn't antagonize you too much. I wasn't sure if your were trolling being a new member and all.

[Gray Wolf]

Some people have asked what the actual numbers are. On every anti-gun website, the number of children per day is 10, not 11 (this data is published by the Centers for Disease Control). Let's start with this little stat. With 1 less child per day, it decreases the number of children killed by 365 in a year. I would qualify that as a significant overstatement.

In addition, all of the anti-gun statistics from the anti-gun lobby, classify children as anyone through, and up to, the age of 19. The last I checked you were an adult at 18. So they have 2 extra years worth of stats (the most devastating years). This only serves as evidence that statistics can be manipulated to any ends that you wish (which is why you can get a degree in Statistics).

Now, to get down to actual data, I submit the following from the CDC's own publication, National Vital Statistics Report, Vol. 49, No. 11, October 12, 2001. Items in parentheses is the percentage of the TOTAL for the category, in an age group. The "#" is the ranking out of the top 10 causes of death for that age group.

Assaults/Homicides overall do not even fall into the top 10 of the CDC's death rating (this report only deals with the top 10). In comparison for the overall stat, accidents account for 97,860 deaths, and is rated #8 (there are 262 million people in this country). This is for ALL races, ALL sexes, and ALL ages nationwide. Also, assaults and homicides are a general category, not exclusively listing gun related deaths.

-All races, both sexes, 1–4 yrs: #4 Assault/Homicide 376 (7.2%)
-All races, both sexes, 5–9 yrs: #4 Assault/Homicide 186 (5.4%)
-All races, both sexes, 10–14 yrs: #3 Assault/Homicide 246 (6.0%)
-All races, both sexes, 15–19 years: #2 Assault/Homicide 2,093 (15.2%)

I do not recall any mention of 1 - 4 year olds killing each other, so lets eliminate that group. We will also remove 50% to be on the conservative side (I believe it is higher), to remove the non-children in the 18-19 year old range. Let's look at the numbers.

365 days @ 11 children/day: 4,015 (their number)

Actual CDC numbers: 2,901
subtract 1 - 4 yo: -376
subtract 50% of 15-19 yo: -1,046

Actual possible total: 1,479
Total with FBI's 8% rule: 118 <---this is explained below

So, if we assume that ALL assaults (assaults cover rape, burglary, etc) and homicides were committed by guns, then we would have 1,479 dead in these age ranges. Of course, all assaults/homicides are not perpetrated by firearms, so we know that they are in fact, lying. If you divide it out, there are possibly 4 children between the ages of 5 and 17, assaulted or murdered daily (this number falls to 2.26 per WEEK if you use the FBI's statistic of 8% firearms usage in assaults, outlined below).

Also, you could further reduce this number by eliminating criminals that obtained guns illegally, since you will not get them if the anti-gun people get there way.

To further strengthen this argument, according to the FBI statistics:

-80% of State Prison Inmates possessing a gun, obtained them from a friend, family, a street buy, or another illegal source.
-Victimizations involving a firearm represented 8% of the 6.3 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

Recently in Australia where firearms were outlawed, violent crime went up 1200% in the first 6 months. Gang rapes in public also became common.

The link to the CDC's report on this is at the following link. This is a PDF file that is 3 pages long.

-CDC Document (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr49/49_11_01.pdf)

I hope this helps to shed light on the actual statistics.

-Gray Wolf

[cooper]

The scary thing for me is that a lot of people accept as fact whatever statistics they are given.

[joseyj]

In some states, New York for one, the law
refers to those under 18 as Infants. So, Mssrs.
Strauss, start selling those 32-waist jeans in the
children or infant (toddler?) section of the stores!

[storm_bringer]

When the anti's post "statistics", they quote sources such as the CDC which includes "children" up to and including NINETEEN years old.

DAMN! I AM WEARING A PAIR OF LEVI's! :mad:

[Sylvan]

Originally posted by Gray Wolf
Some people have asked what the actual numbers are. On every anti-gun website, the number of children per day is 10, not 11 (this data is published by the Centers for Disease Control). Let's start with this little stat. With 1 less child per day, it decreases the number of children killed by 365 in a year. I would qualify that as a significant overstatement.

In addition, all of the anti-gun statistics from the anti-gun lobby, classify children as anyone through, and up to, the age of 19. The last I checked you were an adult at 18. So they have 2 extra years worth of stats (the most devastating years). This only serves as evidence that statistics can be manipulated to any ends that you wish (which is why you can get a degree in Statistics).

Now, to get down to actual data, I submit the following from the CDC's own publication, National Vital Statistics Report, Vol. 49, No. 11, October 12, 2001. Items in parentheses is the percentage of the TOTAL for the category, in an age group. The "#" is the ranking out of the top 10 causes of death for that age group.

Assaults/Homicides overall do not even fall into the top 10 of the CDC's death rating (this report only deals with the top 10). In comparison for the overall stat, accidents account for 97,860 deaths, and is rated #8 (there are 262 million people in this country). This is for ALL races, ALL sexes, and ALL ages nationwide. Also, assaults and homicides are a general category, not exclusively listing gun related deaths.

-All races, both sexes, 1–4 yrs: #4 Assault/Homicide 376 (7.2%)
-All races, both sexes, 5–9 yrs: #4 Assault/Homicide 186 (5.4%)
-All races, both sexes, 10–14 yrs: #3 Assault/Homicide 246 (6.0%)
-All races, both sexes, 15–19 years: #2 Assault/Homicide 2,093 (15.2%)

I do not recall any mention of 1 - 4 year olds killing each other, so lets eliminate that group. We will also remove 50% to be on the conservative side (I believe it is higher), to remove the non-children in the 18-19 year old range. Let's look at the numbers.

365 days @ 11 children/day: 4,015 (their number)

Actual CDC numbers: 2,901
subtract 1 - 4 yo: -376
subtract 50% of 15-19 yo: -1,046

Actual possible total: 1,479
Total with FBI's 8% rule: 118 <---this is explained below

So, if we assume that ALL assaults (assaults cover rape, burglary, etc) and homicides were committed by guns, then we would have 1,479 dead in these age ranges. Of course, all assaults/homicides are not perpetrated by firearms, so we know that they are in fact, lying. If you divide it out, there are possibly 4 children between the ages of 5 and 17, assaulted or murdered daily (this number falls to 2.26 per WEEK if you use the FBI's statistic of 8% firearms usage in assaults, outlined below).

Also, you could further reduce this number by eliminating criminals that obtained guns illegally, since you will not get them if the anti-gun people get there way.

To further strengthen this argument, according to the FBI statistics:

-80% of State Prison Inmates possessing a gun, obtained them from a friend, family, a street buy, or another illegal source.
-Victimizations involving a firearm represented 8% of the 6.3 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

Recently in Australia where firearms were outlawed, violent crime went up 1200% in the first 6 months. Gang rapes in public also became common.

The link to the CDC's report on this is at the following link. This is a PDF file that is 3 pages long.

-CDC Document (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr49/49_11_01.pdf)

I hope this helps to shed light on the actual statistics.

-Gray Wolf
You forgot that they count suicides with firearms as gun violence. Never mind the fact that they would find other ways to kill themselves. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world and no handguns at all.