Who the handloads when ammo is so cheap?

[SouthernShark]

Does anybody really pay top dollar for Winchester or Remington or Federal ammo and then reload it? I am talking about for AK's here, and not for other types of guns where the ammo costs more to begin with. But reloading 7.62x39mm or .223 or 5.45 seems like a serious waste of time to me.


-SouthernShark

[JA]

I reload my deer hunting ammo by pulling the bullets on cheap Russian ammo. Re-charge the cases with the same powder and seat Hornady 123gr soft points.
I can see why other board members complain about the lack of accuracy with their AK rifles. After pulling the bullets on a box of Uly and TCW 7.62x39mm ammo then weighting the powder and bullets. Holy cow! The bullets had a almost 4 grain spread. This is a small percentage of a 123 grain bullet. But I also found a 2 grain spread in the powder charges. Handloaders try to get consistancy as consistancy in powder charges and bullet wieghts is a big factor in obtaining accuracy from your ammo/rifle. The benchmark for powder variations in reloads is +/- .1 grain. This is the accuracy standard that reloading scales are made to and most powder measures will do it too with ball powders.
AS for using boxer primed brass(Rem,Win,Fed) I gave up searching the weeds for it years ago. I just reload the steel cases and leave them wherever they land.

[Critter3]

I load 7.62x39 and .223 I DON'T RUN THAT CHEEP SHIT!!! I like my guns

[CzechPistol]

Forgive the non-ak post, but it seemed relevant:

I handload for very common pistol callibers (9mm). The reason is that I carry +P ammo, and it feels very different in my compact carry that standard ammo. I practice with ammo that is as close to what I carry as possible, so the reloading press, dies, etc. paid for itself very quickly. The challenge is getting the velocities identical. (Anyone got a chronograph for sale?)

The cost of 9mm ammo is:
Standard Factory - 10 cents per round
+P JHP Factory - 60 cents per round
Hadloaded +P JHP - 12 cents per round

The same might apply to AKs?

[CHAINSAW]

Guys, one thing to remember when running the civilian commercial ammo is, the powders used are not the same as the powders used in military grade ammo. For one thing with commercial ammo, you have a greater more intense flash. Military powders are formulated to eliminate this. The reasons fro this are many; cleaner burning, low flash signature at night for reduced night blindness and faster target acquisition, and also accuracy. You probably would definitely be better off loading your own ammo. It's cheaper, quality would definitely be much better, accuracy much improved and companies like Hogdon or any of the others can help you find equivolent powders and primers to the true military stuff. The possibilities for loading your own ammo are limitless.

[dick w. holliday]

if you want to reload some i've got 1750 123 gr Russian bullets and 1000new IMI Brass in 7.62 X 39 that i'll sell shipped to you for 180.00...Last time i checked Weidners wanted 125.00 just for the Brass....Thanks...Dick

[Poodleshooter]

Originally posted by SouthernShark:
<STRONG>Does anybody really pay top dollar for Winchester or Remington or Federal ammo and then reload it? I am talking about for AK's here, and not for other types of guns where the ammo costs more to begin with. But reloading 7.62x39mm or .223 or 5.45 seems like a serious waste of time to me.


-SouthernShark</STRONG>
Yeah I reload 7.62x39, but I do it with picked up cases, or pulled Wolf like JA does.
I don't know of many who reload 5.45, as you have to swage down 5.56 bullets or use the Tula components to make your own- quite expensive. I do reload .223. Sure, M193 ball costs $2-3 a box new. M855 is a bit more. Here's the trick-name me one other type of .223 (52gr-75gr match ammo, 50-60gr varmint ammo, 64gr Winchester PowerPoint,etc.) that is as cheap to buy as it is to reload. We can't beat the cheapest, but we can always beat the high or even medium quality ammo in both price and quality. I reload using military powder with flash reducers, so even the downside mentioned above doesn't apply to me.

Hey JA, thanks for that data! My brother in law and I pulled a bunch of surplus .308, 7.62x39,8mm Mauser and 7.62x54 last night. Charge variations were, "interesting". Have you seen any wear on your seating or crimping dies from the steel cases? I haven't torn mine apart, but am afraid to check!

[Tenderfoot]

I reload for .223 (AR, and now AK) and 22-250 (varmint rifle). I also have a 5.45mm AK-74. Since 5.45mm equates to .21473cal and no 5.45 componets exists will the .224 bullets go through a 5.45 barrel? Dangerous? High pressures? Has anyone actually miked a 5.45mm barrel? What were the mearsurements? Not knowning how to measure a barrel, is there a standard place for this measurement from the chamber end, or the crown end? Does it always remain the same from end to end with no taper? And finally what dimension do you use the land to land, or groove to groove? Man what questions! Sorry just wondering! Do all countries use the same standards for dimensioning barrels?
HELP!
:confused:
TF

[dinks1]

how do you pull the bullet and reseat it when you are using the steel cased ammo? What kind of case prep is involved? :p

[Poodleshooter]

Originally posted by Tenderfoot:
<STRONG>I reload for .223 (AR, and now AK) and 22-250 (varmint rifle). I also have a 5.45mm AK-74. Since 5.45mm equates to .21473cal and no 5.45 componets exists will the .224 bullets go through a 5.45 barrel?</STRONG> No, you can't shoot .224 bullets through. Some people are swaging the .224 bullets down to .215" (IIRC)
<STRONG>Has anyone actually miked a 5.45mm barrel? What were the mearsurements?</STRONG> I think it's around .215"
<STRONG> Not knowning how to measure a barrel, is there a standard place for this measurement from the chamber end, or the crown end?</STRONG>crown end
<STRONG> Does it always remain the same from end to end with no taper?</STRONG> Sometimes. Most rifles yes. Some, like the Ruger Mini 30, start larger and taper down. It does this to allow .311 bullets to be safely fired in a barrel where the muzzle measurement is .308
<STRONG> And finally what dimension do you use the land to land, or groove to groove? Man what questions! Sorry just wondering! Do all countries use the same standards for dimensioning barrels</STRONG> The US uses groove to groove. A .308 barrel is only .300 across the lands (30 caliber). Rifling land heights vary however, so this is approximate. Another example is the .311 bullet. Measure across the lands and it is .303 IIRC. Hence, the .303 British and the 7.62x39 are both the same caliber bullet.

[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Poodleshooter ]

[Poodleshooter]

Originally posted by dinks1:
<STRONG>how do you pull the bullet and reseat it when you are using the steel cased ammo? What kind of case prep is involved? :p</STRONG>
You use a kinetic hammer or a collet puller. I've used a hammer. No case prep required as the hammer opens the case mouth enough to pull the bullet, and seat the next one. A crimp die such as the Lee FCD helps downsize the neck for smooth loading. I still don't know if it hurts the dies though
:confused: I'm hoping it doesn't!

[JA]

In the last 15 years of pulling bullets on 7.62x39mm ammo to seat Hornady in over 1000 cases I have not had to touch the adjustments on my set of Lee 7.62x39mm dies. If the dies were wearing from seating and crimping steel cases the die would need to be screwed into the press because of wear on the crimp area of the die would result in loose crimps/bullets. Doing a "bench test" on the ammo shows no movement of the bullet when pressing the nose of the bullet into the side of the bench as hard as I can.
The bullets for 5.45x39mm are not .215" they are .221"!!!
Using a .221" Lee lube and size kit(special order from Lee $25) to resize 68gr Hornady hp match bullets. RCBS 5.45x39mm full length die set #56065($86.85) from www.huntingtons.com (http://www.huntingtons.com)
Resizing new .222Remington brass in the 5.45x39mm resizing die and trimming to length. I use the max load for a 70gr bullet in the .221 Remington Fireball cartridge which chronographs at the same velosity as the Russian 69gr ammo.
Tried Winchester primers but got slam fires so I switched to CCI # 41 military spec primers from Huntingtons.
Pulling bullets is easist using a pair of lineman pliers. Just inset the cartridge into the shell holder and run it up in the press till it comes out the top grab the bullet and pull the handle down on the press. It leaves 2 marks on the bullet but I have been unable to tell any loss of accuracy using the bullets pulled this way in my reloads. Once the bullet is pulled there is no case prep needed just recharge it with powder and seat a bullet.

[Poodleshooter]

Originally posted by JA:
<STRONG>The bullets for 5.45x39mm are not .215" they are .221"!!!
</STRONG>
DOH! That's what I get for posting w/o a reference handy.

:o

[dinks1]

What would happen if you used a different loading in the steel cases that have had the bullet pulled and the powder dumped? :confused:

[JA]

You would have to adjust powder type and charge weight for the type/weight of the bullet. The maxium pressure limit for the 7.62x39mm cartridge has to be adheared to. No matter what powder/bullet combo you use,you must stay under the max pressure limit.
So less powder for heavier bullets is needed to keep the pressures in the safe zone and this results in less velosity. Lighter bullets can use more powder for higher velosities and stay within a safe pressure zone.

[m-t-tomb]

My $0.02-
Look up paranoid in the dictionary and you'll se my picture. Sure, 7.62 is cheap...for now. Steel cases are great for single use, ie, not SHTF reloading scenario. As long as life is good, sure, buy cheap ammo instead. But think, when has the gov't ever restored our liberties once they seized them. For that reason alone, everyone should have at the very least, one of those Lee handloaders per caliber of gun you own. (They're less than $20, buy one!) Preferrably, you will get a decent bench press and dies for each caliber and powder scales, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Also, reloading is fun, kinda like hunting. Why hunt when Big Macs are cheap?

As for cheap: AK Brass is about $0.15 each, or more, while once fired, deprimed, tumbled .223 brass is 0.03 and 9mm is 0.02. (From midway)

If you like Lee, I do, but I'm cheap, goto leeprecision.com and check what to get, then goto midway or f&m to buy it online. (It's cheaper.)

Sure, it's not Dillon, etc., but for a couple hundred bucks you can get everything you need.

You may or may not agree, but that's what's nice about America.

[taylor42]

What is the URL for Midway and the 7.62 brass?

Thanks

[Poodleshooter]

www.midwayusa.com

[other new guy]

Originally posted by dinks1
What would happen if you used a different loading in the steel cases that have had the bullet pulled and the powder dumped? :confused:

You would be well advised to start at the minimum in your manual, and work up slowly. I don't know anything about the dimensions of steel cases compared to brass, but you should err on the side of caution.
Shooting your rifle is a controlled explosion. Don't let it become uncontrolled.