FN&DPMS Made AR-15's?

[recon]

Two the best out there or?

[Circuits]

FN has NEVER made an AR-15 - only M16A2's for the sole use of the US military. They are not even allowed, by contract, to sell parts to anyone but the military. They cannot even sell to agencies of the US government other than the US military.

The occasional genuine FN parts that make their way into civilian hands are either rejects or stolen US property. The "so-called" FN parts offered by many companies are so named because they came from the same subcontractors used by FN, and incidentally, used by Bushmaster and Colt. The difference is if they tried to call them "Colt" or "Bushmaster" the way they now call them "FN", they'd get sued, since Colt and Bushmaster have non-military sales to protect, while FN doesn't seem to care, since they sell only to the military anyway.

DPMS makes both AR-15's and M16's (Model A15 and Model EM16), and they're pretty good rifles.

In my personal experience, the best AR-15's are made by ABC - Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt.

[recon]

The reason I'am asking is I was at the Knob Creek shoot. This one seller had FN marked upper's,Bushmaster,Colt,Dpms. He was saying that next to DPMS FN are the best out there! So what he was selling as far as FN was illegal? DPMS I heard they don't have chrome lined barrels not that that matters or does it? Armalite I'll look into. I have a pre ban Bushey and love it! :D

[Circuits]

While I don't want to say all the FN marked stuff out there is stolen or rejects, I'd hazard a guess that most of it is.

FN marked barrels have been sold off as surplus when shot out, and not all are demilled (cut in half, or stripped bare) - but they'll rarely be good for anything but blasters.

Very occasionally FN subcontractor parts, already marked FN, might be available as part of a subcontractor over-run. While marked FN, and perhaps originally intended for FN, they've probably never been inside the FN plant, or looked over by an FN QC inspector - they just happened to be left over and never delivered to FN, so could be sold off by the subcontractor as spares to the civilian market.

It's also marginally possible that the military goofs from time to time, and sells off surplus FN uppers or barrels or whatever, instead of demilling them first.

Once upon a time, the US government sold off an entire unused, surplus uranium enrichment plant as scrap metal to a junk dealer, without realizing it. They only discovered their error when the dealer found a buyer for it, and had to apply for an export license.

Instead of the millons (not sure of the exact amount any longer, but it was a lot) he thought he was going to get for it, the government required him to cut it up, so it was only good for the value of its scrap.

[recon]

Okay sounds good to me. How about DPMS AR's?

[Circuits]

I love DPMS, except I believe their barrels lack chrome lining. For a barrel or barreled upper, I'd go with a chrome lined, personally, which means Armalite, Bushmaster or Colt, genuine military surplus, or special order from Rock River Arms or Olympic Arms.

DPMS lowers and parts are fine by me, and uppers are fine, too - though I'd probably put a Bushmaster barrel on it instead of a DPMS.

If you're just looking for AR's, the Armalite M15 is probably the best finished available today. Colt still makes a decent product if you can find one, and put up with the goofy blocks and different sized pins they've been using the past 10 years. Next on the list would be Bushmaster - after that they're all pretty much the same to me.

[recon]

Okay how about some more info on Rock River Arms and Olympic Arms? :D

[TheBigCAx]

:cool:

[Karsten]

Ya, I know you don't need advice from some new kid on the block here.

If you are looking at a new AR and want to stay away from all the problems and horror stories others tell...Stay with ABCD and R

Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt (Can be iffy lately) DPMS and Rock River.

I would personally get as close to Mil Spec as Possible and most importantly a 5.56 chamber rather than an AR with a .223 Rem SAMII chamber...there is a big difference.

This is gonna leave you looking at Bushmaster alone or a Non Chrome lined Stoner.

Sure a Chrome Lined chamber and bore will most likely last longer and requires less effort to maintain.

But it isn't that tough the clean and oil a weapon either.

Just my Opinion and nothing more.

Karsten

[rockspyder]

New guy here, just starting to get interested again in the "black rifle". :) I'm curious about the difference between the 5.56mm bore and the .223 Rem (SAMII (SAAMI?)) chamber. Could you elaborate on that a little?

Big reason is I'm sitting here looking at the Bushmaster online catalog, at a... "XM15 E2S Shorty A3" and it lists the caliber as ".223 Rem (5.56 mm)". So, I'm corn-fused.

[Karsten]

Rockspyder,

Bushmaster may list .223 but the chamber is 5.56 Nato and there is a big difference.

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ENFORCEMENT · NEWS · 05/04/2001




.223 Rem VS 5.56mm


Paul Nowak

05/04/2001

.223 Rem VS 5.56mm
There are a lot of questions about these two cartridges. Many people think they are identical - merely different designations for commercial and military. The truth is that, although somewhat similar, they are not the same and you should know the differences before buying either cartridge.


The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions.
The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.
The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.
The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.
You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.
The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.
Before buying either of these two types of ammunition, always check your gun to find what caliber it is chambered for, then buy the appropriate ammunition. Most 5.56mm rounds made have full metal jacket bullets. Performance bullets - soft points, hollow points, Ballistic Silvertips, etc. - are loaded in .223 Rem cartridges. Firing a .223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56mm-chambered gun is safe and merely gives you slightly reduced velocity and accuracy. However we do not recommend, nor does SAAMI recommend, firing a 5.56mm cartridge in a gun chambered for the .223 Rem as the shorter leade can cause pressure-related problems.

Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition East Alton Illinois


************************************************** **

Hope that helps

Karsten

[recon]

Very good info! I didn't know this about the 5.56 and .223! Well done!;)

[rockspyder]

Originally posted by Karsten
...

************************************************** **

Hope that helps

Thank you very much, Karsten. That helps tremendously!

[Karsten]

You are all welcome and I am happy I could share some info here as well.

I indeed seems that AR's look alike but they are NOT created equal.

I have quite a few and a few more in the works.

Karsten

[recon]

Do you have certains one's you like best? And why?

[Karsten]

Recon,

If I were to pick one AR for an all around best bet, I would go the BM Dissapator.

You get the Chrome barrel and bore, chambed in 5.56 and best of all you get a rifle lenth sight radius in a Carbine.

The Dissapator comes with a Heavy Barrel and a full 20 inch sight radius, full lenth hand gaurds with heat shelds.

About the only other thing to frost the cake would be an A3 Picatinny Rail Upper and some mid range optics.

Just my Opinion.

Karsten