Reloading, is it worth it?

[Polyak]

I have been thinking for a while about reloading my ammo, not really my AK ammo since it is so cheap any way, but GLOCK .40 ammo gets to be pretty expensive to shoot regularly. Can someone give me an estimate of what it would cost to get set up and then an approximation of what the ammo would end up costing me. Right now I am paying $10-$12 for target ammo for 50 rounds. I will usually shoot around 3 boxes or more when I go shooting which is about every other week or so. I wish I could shoot my AK that much, but my local range only allows pistol caliber weapons. I've been hving to drive an hour and 45 min. to go shoot my AK and Dragunov, that SUCKS.
Any replies on this would be appreciated.

[xebec]

If you shoot your pistol frequently, relaoding will certainly pay off in a relatively short period of time. .40SW in particular will become less and less expensive to reload-- already .40 brass has become nearly as cheap as 9mm.
Initial outlay is always the tough part of reloading. I use a LEE Loadmaster, and am very pleased with its quality and performance in the thousands of .45 ACP, 9mm, .223, 7.62x39, and .270Win rounds that I have loaded. ( I am sure that the Dillon fanatics will crucify me for liking the Lee press.)
Consider the numbers to decide if the investment will justify the return for you:

Lee Loadmaster (complete for .40)~$200
Brass-once fired (1000)~ $30
Bullets-Star .40 (1000)~ $60
Powder-1lb. ~ $18
Primers (1000) ~ $15
So you can turn out quality ammo with this minimum setup for about $330. If you pay $12 a box for ammo then you will spend $240 just for the ammo. So after 1000 rounds you are in the hole only $90 for your reloading press.
You will only spend ~ $93 on your next thousand (using your own brass this time) or about $4.65/ box. This is with Jacketed hollow point bullets-- you will save even more if you shoot lead.
My prices are based on these retailers: http://www.tntreloading.com http://www.midwayusa.com
Post back if you have any questions.

[JA]

Ditto on the question is it worth it. My equipment has been paid for for years by the savings over factory ammo. The Pro 1000 will handle all pistol and rifle ammo up to .223 in lenght for $129.99 delivered ready to load from www.midwayusa.com (http://www.midwayusa.com)
I load 9mm's with Remington 115 gr JHP bullets for under $5 a box. Next time you are in Wal-mart check the price on a box of Remington 9mm JHP ammo.
Loading .40 you will be able to load JHP ammo for about $8 a box and lead bullets for $4.50 a box. Not counting the price of the loader and brass just bullets,powder,and primers. A little math:
shooting 13 times a year x 3 boxes ammo@$10 a box= $360
36 boxes of ammo x $4.50 for your reloads= $162
So you will save $198 the first year.
For $198 you can get a reloader and accesories(powder scales,adjustable powder charge bar, case collator).
So you would pay for the equipment the first year. The second year would be even better as you would only be paying for componets.

[Polyak]

Thanks guys. It definately sounds worth it. I'm going to start researching now to see what I need. I want to be able to reload the .40 and 7.62x54r. Thanks again for your help, I'm sold.


(I'm sure I'm going to have plenty more questions for ya'll in the near future.)

[Titan Tom]

Polyak,
I started reloading about 20 years ago, when I bought a Ruger Super Blackhawk. It was the only way I could afford to feed the beast. Now I reload for everything I shoot, less 7.62X39. It is the ONLY way to go.

I just finished cranking out about 400 rounds of 357 out of my Dillon RL550B. One you get a progressive press set up & running, it is almost as fun doing the reloading as it is the shooting.

That said, I would HIGHLY DISCOURAGE you from initially investing into a progressive reloader. If you are new to the game, you will be better served by first buying one of the RCBS outfits with accessories centered around their ecellent Rock Chucker press. The whole shebang can be had as a kit from Midway, and it will be a solid investment. Even if you move up to a progressive in the future, you will still use the Roch Chucker, trust me. I have three presses set up now, and all three get a regular workout. By learning the ropes on a single-stage press, you will better familiarize yourself with the entire process, and moving up to a progressive will be a snap.

Another thing. Do not think that reloading is something you can teach yourself from an instruction book. You should find someone that is an accomplished reloader, and mentor under them for a session or two. There are many "tricks" to get things just right, ain't in no damn book. Proper, safe, and accurate reloading is an art, and you owe it to yourself to get it right from the beginning.

Good luck, and feel free to ask me or any other reloaders here when the questions arise.

[Polyak]

Sounds like good advice Titan Tom, thanks. My problem is that I don't know anybody that reloads. Is there any videos (or books) any of you would recommend? It looks like I will have to teach myself, but I want to make sure I'm doing it the right way, the safe way.

I don't know anything about reloading, so could please explain the differences between the single stage press and the progressive. Thanks.

[LAgunman2K-3]

there should be a few books available and videos showing you how to reload
maybe you can hook up with someone that reloads and while being taught how, you can determine if you want a progressive reloader, if your going to reload for a lot of different calibers, or A LOT of one caliber, i would say go to progressive
so if you can determine what you will do before you start and how much you like doing this, this is will help you out a lot
the Lee stuff is so-so, im sure the rcbs is good also, but the dillon is BEST, and probably safest, they actually have bells and whistles to let you know if there is an under/over charged round and when your low on primers, they also have a "NO BS GUARANTEE", meaning --if you break it, blow it up, or just want to up grade, they will fix it free
yeah FREE, there a GREAT company, with a hi tech peice of equipment
maybe check out there catalog
good luck --HTH

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[chucko]

Here are some Videos from Dillon

http://www.dillonprecision.com/template/searchResult.cfm?product=Videos&sort=style&dyn=1&

Chuck

[Deltaten]

Polyak:
check prices on the RCBS rockchucker press. Buy the press kit/dies alone( no acces.kit) then get other parts/accesories you want. They are marketing a complete (?) set up for around $300; a lot of stuff you don't want. My RCBS powder measure gathers dust in the corner. Too apt to squib/double charge... poor engineering! Use a Lee Auto disc on a Lee powder thru die. Get a good scale- any brand that easily readable. Invest in carbide dies (no lube needed), and the Lee Factory crimp die/s.

The big advantage to the Rockchucker is that you can start out single stage, then when you become proficient, you can load a Piggyback II on top and go auto. I can get 300 +/- rds./hr. without an auto case or bullet feed. If you need to repack some rifle cart.s, just pull off the PBII and go (up to .50BMG). I load about 8-10 K rds. year in 7 or 8 pistol cals. and 5 rifle calibers, and am just now replacing the indexing bushing. I know too many guys that went with the Lee pro 1000 right away then had to unload it (the press) at a loss later when they found out what it took to convert cals. or not do rifle above .223. Dillon's good, but only the higher end auto presses; not a fun way to start and more $.

Find an "Elmer" that's been doing it for years and get him/her whoever to coach you. It saves immeasurable time in the learning curve. Best of luck

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NO government is better than ours!!

[LClarke]

I think you have to look at what caliber you are going to reload, how much you shoot and attendant start up costs. Although I reload many different calibers and enjoy it, it really is not cost effective at least now, to reload rounds for the AK/SKS due to the pricing. You can easily surpass 13 cents a round reloading the 7.62-39, especially since the bullets are the most expensive component. ClassicArms.com currently advertises .223 Russian for $125 per thousand and for the 7.62-39 its $89 plus $14 shipping. Given the labor necessary to do a real good job on spent .223 brass such as frequent trimming, annealing etc. it's just not worth it in my opinion.

[Polyak]

I spent some time about a week ago and researched reloading for me and have found that it would cost me more to reload. I wasn't interested in reloading for the AK, 'cause like you said, the AK ammo is very cheap right now. I was interested in reloading for my ROMAK 3 cartridge, 7.62x54r. The prices I've seen so far for the materials for that cartridge are at least 4-5 times more than what I can buy premanufactured ammo for. Granted, I would save a bit on my .40 ammo but not enough to make up the difference. I want to thank everybody for there help, but I think I am going to pass on a new hobby for now, maybe later.

[This message has been edited by polyak (edited 01-10-2000).]

[Reynolds]

polyak,
The only economical source for 7.62x54R reloadable brass seems to be from factory loaded S&B ammunition. Ivanhoe's was advertising it for something like $7.30 a 20 round box in case qty (28 boxes) a few weeks ago in SG News. I say "seems to be" since I have yet to try to reload it since I still haven't picked up a die for this caliber. Reloaded prices still probably won't be as low as the steel-cased surplus that you can buy by the spam can, but it also won't be corrosive ammunition and will give you a little room to experiment.

[Polyak]

I've been wanting to try that S&B ammo anyway, it's about $3.00 or so more than the Russian 7.62x54r hunting cartridge I've been using. My question is this: How many times can you reuse a casing? And thanks for the tip on Ivanhoe, I got my original pricing from the midway catalog I ordered.

[Packrat]

The reloads you get out of a cartridge is like the length of a string -- varies widely. High pressure loads, especially with tapered cases, go out fast. "Mellow" loads can be reloaded many time. I've had many .45 ACP cases go 10 times before they start to crack or the primer pocket expands. If you look at each case before you reload it, and if you feel the primer going in, you'll spot the problems before they happen.

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Packrat

[Reynolds]

I going to try to get as much use out of any brass I have as possible since it is a little hard to come by. I have a Finnish Tikka rebarreled M91 with imperial czarist proofs and three assorted M44s, so I'm planning on taking it easy with my reloads in 7.62x54R. The recoil and muzzle flash is bad enough out of those M44s without trying to push the envelope. I wouldn't really advise that in any 50 to 80 year old firearms anyway. I might even try casting a few bullets if I can get my project list whittled down a little more than it is now.
Best of luck with your new reloading hobby if you do choose to go that route. At times, it is as much fun to me as shooting the ammo, but I am the type who likes to make things just to see how they work.

[LClarke]

Packrat - The venerable .45 case, they seem like they will last forever. The .45 straightwall case is most always taper crimped and thus does not work harden and go away quickly like .357 mags. I've been reloading mine for nearly two years and they cases are still serviceable until the headstamp is no longer readable from being hammered! The .45 headspaces on the case mouth and actually "shrinks" over time/use.

[wct097]

Quick question.... then I'll start researching some of the links above...

I think that the best way for me to get started in this reloading stuff is to buy all of the parts seperatly and build my own kit....

Are dies interchangable? If I buy a die set from Dillon, will it fit a RCBS press? I don't even know if Dillon makes dies, but I'm using it as an example.



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-Will Tyler
-wct097@yahoo.com
"Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day."

[xebec]

Hey wtc, all American dies are made to the 7/8x14 standard and will work in whaterver American press you purchase. Dillon DOES make dies and they are very good. My suggestion would be LEE dies-- IMHO best value on the reloading market right now. I own lots of RCBS equipment and it is top grade as well. Shop around for what you want then post some specifics-- someone here will have some experience with what you are looking at. Look at some of the kits from Midway or Natchez-- they are often the cheapest way to start out.

[royce]

I have been reloading for two years and my equpment has completely paid for itself...accessories included! Don't be afraid to get into a progressive first time out...just do A LOT of reading...every book and magazine article you can find. I strongly recommend you pay a visit to shooterstalk.com This site is the PREMIER site on the internet for chat about guns...all guns...all gun problems, projects, etc. The major players have an extended knowledge of all matters relating to guns & their use. I learned reloading from that room and solved a lot of procedure/equipment problems in there. It's a very friendly place...nonsense and obcenity is NOT tolerated there (a good lesson to learn).

The Lee progressive is an excellent and inexpensive press, but is more difficult to master/maintain than others. You can also buy your equipment used on the 'net. I did and with a lttle elbow grease got great gear at a fraction of the cost. It was also a good learning experience to renew/repair/rebuild my equipment.

7.62x39 and 9mm is too cheap right now to bother reloading, but now is a good time to set up just in case the milsurp does dry up in the coming years. Nothing lasts forever, so be prepared. I figure a thousand rounds of reloadable brass (and the dies) for every caliber I use is safe for future operation.

By the way...reloading is a lot cheaper for any round if you go to LEAD bullets. It's the metal jacketed bullet that makes reloading these rounds too expensive. If you catch a good deal on bullets and/or powder at a gunshow...BUY!

Good luck, pay attention and DON'T answer the phone while reloading...EVER!

[alter-ego]

Yes to Pistol rounds if you can do it less than reloading prices. Russian ammo is coming in at really low prices these days.

[Zanshin]

REYNOLDS--

And all--

Load light bullets for your M44s-- 123 grain works great and is far more confortable. Up to 147 isn't so bad, but after that, those little guys thump. The Chinese found that out with their build of these little carbines (the Type 53 I think it goes by), and did the same.

[MIKE14]

I've found that best thing about reloading is the fact that you can build a load that works well in a specific gun. I can buy .308 hirtenburger for $34.00 per 200 rds. but it does not perform as well as the loads I make myself. Yes is true that you can buy ammo cheaper than you can reload it. I guess it depends on what you want to do with it.I'm not going to take my SKS and get a one inch at 100yds with the best hand load I could possibly make,but It will shoot circles around Wolf brand ammo. By all means get a press and start loading and then you will have more options at your disposal

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M-14 OUT

[MickeyMose]

Any comments to a novice regarding loading .44mag???

[Poodleshooter]

.44 magnum is cheap to reload using lead bullets, faster powders and lower velocities. Stay away from Unique-it's like ramming charcoal briquets down your barrel. For magnum loads, use H110, Win296 or other slow powders and plated bullets. Use the good commercial hollowpoints only for hunting. I could answer specific questions a little better.....

[MickeyMose]

Thanks for the info. Lead may be out as I have a Desert Eagle which I understand has a problem with lead fouling the gas port.

Like to shoot it but ammo cost is nasty for .44!!

Want to order some "Magtech" for it as I have seen it at $13 / 50. Beats the $18. I'm paying now! Their .45 seems OK so want to try some.