Gun show fakes!

[JA]

Went to show in Little Rock,AR today and saw a Yugo with pistol grip and muzzle brake for $995. When I picked it up and looked the M-90 marking had been sanded off. All I could see was a faint part of the 9 and 0. It had been touched up with blueing. Also a MADDI with E.German folding stock for $700. The rear sight base had 93 on it. Both were being hawked as rare pre ban. So if your looking for a pre ban you had better look real close.

[KYoon]

Technically, possession of a rifle so reconfigured is not a crime, technically, only manufacture is. However, anyone in possession of such a device is subject to having it consficated, at least that's what I've heard.

The current laws are so confusing. It's difficult to tell up from down.

[56s]

Hello JA,
I too have seen post bans being sold as pre ban and this was at a gun dealers store!
Got to watch what we are buying.
Take care, OUT

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56s-2

[AK KRAZY !!!]

Went to Indy 1500 Gun and knife show last weekend dealer had Mak-90 with Sporter marking milled off, front sight base did not have cleaning rod support an he wanted $850, All I see at shows are fakes nowdays the biggest warning sign is the guns with the Chinese folding bayonet that does not match the blue of the bbl, and of course erased markings.

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AK KRAZY !!!

[zero]

Guy's, this just show's you how greedy these jerk's are and if they say they didn't know then they're a bunch of lieing idiot's. I seen a dealer at a show in north texas and he was trying to pass off a chinese uzi post ban as a pre, get this he was asking over a thousand dollar's for it and i told him he was crazy, i should of shoved the dam thing up his a_ _. The more i hear and see this crap happening just piss's me off. GREED, remember life is a big circle and everything comes back around.

[TinMan99]

The other day at a recent gunshow I saw a book entitled, "The Pre-Ban/Post-Ban Serial Number Bible." It was about an inch-thick volume of rifles by serial number category as to which rifle was legally preban and which was legally postban. I didn't pay much heed to it at the time but it wouldn't be a bad investment for someone that buys rifles regularly at shows and whatnot. Recently, at a local reputable gunshop, the vendor tried to sell me a 'pre-ban' AR15 with a 9mm carbine upper. The upper was preban configured, the lower also had preban features. The serial number was well into the postban. When I asked the dealer about this, they shrugged and are still trying to sell this lawsuit waiting to happen for over $1000. The sad thing is, when I was looking at buying this rifle, I didn't know much about what was pre and post-ban but had the good sense to get the serial number and phone it in to the manufacturer for a ruling. I'm still debating whether or not I should report this dealer to the ATF, since there is going to be some innocent trusting honest gun-enthusiast will walk into their store and buy that thing and may find himself under arrest and his rifle taken away all for this dealer's lack of professionalism. My first instinct is to report them, then the more distrusting of the government side kicks in and says I should keep my mouth shut. I'm beside myself on this issue. What would you out there do with such an unscrupulous dealer? Not someone that has a rifle and doesn't know it's illegal, but one that patently knows as it is brought to their attention and confirmed by the manufacturer.

TinMan99


[This message has been edited by TinMan99 (edited June 10, 1999).]

[AK KRAZY !!!]

How to spot the Jail Bait fakes:
I am no expert guys so feel free to add more.
1. Word SPORTER anywhere on gun.
2. Word Sporter ground, gouged, carved, or somehow erased from Gun.
3. Unthreaded barrel.
4.Tack Welded Muzle nuts, or silver soldered nuts, comps, suppressors.
5. Front sight post with no cleaning rod retainer feature on bottom.
6. Gas block bayonet stud ground off.
7. Chinese folding bayo front sight on your Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian guns. Doesn't match bluing on Chinese guns. usually only 1 pin installed.
8.Hollowed pistol grip handle to accomidate for short gripscrew.
9. Missmatched wood or other type stocks.
10.Angle cut Mak and Romak recievers.
Thats all I can think of, except I do accept Donations of abandoned and unwanted pre and post ban Kalasnikov rifles HA!

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AK KRAZY !!!

[x39]

TinMan,I wouldn't turn him in,not that the little jerk doesn't deserve it,but the media would have a field day with a bust for contraband weapons at a gun show.Rather,I would turn him in to the promoters of the show,with proof that the weapon was of an illegal configuration,and hopefully have him banned from that venue permanently.Perhaps show promoters could start and circulate a list of those whose activities are harmful to our cause and put them out of business.At least we could police our own,no one would get in trouble,and the media would have nothing to report on.If a simular post appears prior to this one,I apologize,I thought I lost it in cyberspace.

[TinMan99]

This dealer wasn't a gunshow, but an established permanent gun shop. Guess I'll keep my mouth shut on this one, but I can't feel a pang of guilt for doing it, even just a little. Chat with you all later.

TinMan99

[x39]

TinMan,I guess I should have read your post twice,I missed the fact that this was a shop.Anyone stupid enough to try a stunt like this from an established business deserves whatever they get.How about the Better Business Bureau? At the very least warn anyone you can about the guy,who knows what other frauds he's tried to perpetrate.

[Necron99]

I say buyer beware. Besides, even if you turn into a narc for the ATF they may not do anything. They have their own agenda, and unless you are an important politician, or have inside connections most federal bureacracies are not all that interested. Or they may come and seize this guy's weapon and threaten prosecution unless he becomes a narc himself. Then he's out to screw you in more ways than one. Either way gun owners lose. We all know that these gun laws are unconstitutional, so why bicker over some gun dealer involved in profiteering. Just don't buy his overpriced gun. When they ban all guns are you going to be worried that the AK you haven't registered or turned in to officer friendly has a sporter stock or not. Here's a true story that'll scare you. A friend of a friend, had another family over for dinner about eight years ago. He had a legal AR15 prominently displayed on his wall. The family that he so graciously hosted narced him off to the ATF saying he had a suspicious firearm. The ATF came and seized the gun, they never prosecuted him for anything, but under Ronald Reagon's lovely Omnibus Drug Laws they could seize the property without due process. Do you think he ever got the gun back? Yeah right, who's going to hire a lawyer on an hourly basis to fight the government to get a $900 rifle back.

[zero]

I have mixed emotion's on this guy with the gun shop, yes he need's his a_ _ kicked for trying to sell a non pre ban for a pre ban to make a bunch more money and if you turn him in nothing will probably happen to him and if it did then you wouldn't have a gun shop, so what does a person do? If they start attacking gun shop's, you know who's next don't you? I wouldn't tell the law s_ _ t, but i would let other's know not to buy the jerk's gun.

[Butt Plate]

TinMan99 -- I would not turn in the store owner if I was in your situtation. In my opinion it is "buyer beware." Each of us has an obligation to get educated and protect ourselves from fraudulent FFL dealers.

On the other hand, I would not hesitate to drop by his store any time I was in a particularly nasty mood and declare in a slightly-too-loud voice, "Hey, you ever sell that fake pre-ban AK you tried to pass off on me!" Then turn to the nearest customer, tell him your story -- again in a loud voice -- and declare that is why you'll never buy gun from this schiester again, and leave.

[ponyboy]

No way in hell would I turn anybody in for most any firearm violation. Turn somebody in for breaking an illegal law? Sounds more like Nazi Germany...

[JT]

MHO, I had a similar situation in my neighborhood. I needed an AR lower, preban, that I could use to finish a rifle. I went to a gun show and found a guy who claimed he had two. Both were assembled with collapsible stock and pistol grip with the removable mag. I paid a hefty but fair price. I paid with a check. I got home Monday and called the manufacturer. To my surprise they were post bans. To make a long story short the dealer and the manufacturer all had a different word for it pre manufacture but not usable to build a gun. Blah blah blah, they were just making me feel stupid. I said well you had others just exchange these. He said you'll have the same problem they are all the same. He said he would give me back my money. I said no, you sold me something and wrote it on your receipt I am demanding that you perform, merely returning my money is not sufficient. I said that as far as I was concerned if he did not give me what I paid for I would stop the check and keep his post ban receivers. I explained that if he did not like that he could sue me and I would bring his receipt along with ATF and let the court decide whether he ripped me off or not. Amazingly he came up with what he said he didn't have and he got his crap back and I got what I paid for.

So go to the store where this guy is trying to rip people off, talk him down as low as he will go on the gun and then buy it. Then confirm it is a post ban and make him give you what you paid for. In this manner it will no longer be profitable for him. He'll learn the lesson.

Just keep in mind it might actually e an honest mistake. My guy was a crook and now even months later I have other friends telling me of similar experiences with the same clown.

Good luck and buyer beware!