California Law as of 01/01/00

[Albert]

Here's my best explanation: As of 1/1/00 it will be illegal to buy, sell, offer for sale, import, trade, give-away (and in some cases even loan) any "assault weapon" or "large capacity magazine." Under the old California assault weapon law, the banned guns were on a list by name. The new law defines banned guns by their features. The new law defines an assault weapon as a center-fire, semi-auto rifle with the capacity to accept a detachable magazine AND ANY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING FEATURES: pistol grip, thumbhole stock (I'm not kidding), telescoping stock, grenade or flare launcher, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or forward pistol grip. In addition, center-fire, semi-auto rifles also qualify as "assault weapons" if they have a fixed magazine with a capacity of more than 10 rounds or is less than 30" long regardless of whether it has any of the other evil features. There are also pistol and shotgun criteria for being labelled an "assault weapon" which I can provide anyone who's interested. As for magazines, anything that holds more than 10 is banned by the new law whether it's detachable or not. So feeding tubes are included. By "banned" I do not mean to say or imply that you can no longer own them in California. It's just that you can't buy, sell, offer for sale, trade or give them away. As long as you own them legally before 1/1/00, it's okay to keep them on one condition. Assault Weapons must be registered with the State once the forms are available after 1/1/00. Magazines don't have to be registered, but you should keep any receipts you have or find another way to prove you owned them before 1/1/00. Oh, my favorite part of the law is that practice or dummy grenades like those sold on a wooden stand that says "complaint department, take a number" are illegal to own as of 1/1/00. These cannot be registered or kept, but must be detroyed, surrendered or sent out of state. Gee, I don't seem to remember the last time some looney killed a bunch of innocents with a dummy grenade do you? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Keep your fingers crossed that the repeal petition and initiative succeeds or that the courts strike this law down. Albert.

[Bryant]

Mother fucking liberals- the only way to deal with roaches is to kill em' all!

[gopher29]

Can someone explain the situation in California for gun owners as of 01/01/00. I heard that as of the first of the year owners of "assault weapons" in CA are basically finished...can someone explain? Will Californians still be able to purchase or possess an AK or an UZI?? Hi-Cap mags???

[WAREAGLE]

That is truly ridiculous! I can't believe that about the de-militarized novelty grenades. These people are out of their freaking minds!

[gopher29]

Thank You for clarifying that for me. I guess I was right in saying "Californians are basically finished". Sounds like it is only a matter of time before Kalifornia completely repeals the 2nd ammendment. That's scary, because if it can happen there it can happen elsewhere. Kalifornia is a state with a great deal of influence on the Federal Govt. because of the large number of electoral votes it carries, the large number of representatives it has in the House, and the great deal of influence "Hollywood" has with molding our Nation. I'm glad I don't live in Kalifornia but I'm concerned that it may only be a matter of time before my state of residence is invaded by their fascist, unconstitutional, new-world order.

- Gopher

[Turbinator]

I'm in California. Looks like I'll either have to pack up and leave or start up that slingshot collection. Anyone know who makes the best hicap assault slingshot with a folding stock? And bayo lug? With preban handle?

Turbinator

[56s]

Hello,

Man oh man how Kali has changed since I lived there!

All you fellow AKM lovers should pack up and move over here to Nevada.

Take care, OUT in Vegas!

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56s

[LAgunman2K-3]

ALSO---READ THIS PART OF THE LAW NEAR THE BOTTOM -- if you should ever for some un-Godly reason want to move to Kalif with an assualt weapon-- you MUST transfer the gun to a dealer (not sure how many dealers would even allow those in there business) then the dealer must Apply for a permit to the DOJ to ALLOW you to keep the gun in this state (NOW HERES THE KICKER) if or more like When you are Denied firearm access the Dealer WILL turn over the firearm (YOUR GUN) or render it permanently inoperable !!!!!!!!!!!!!
isnt this like THEFT ?? do ya think the good ole DOJ will send some nice agents over to the dealers house to kindly retrieve your firearm for destruction and of course you will get NO compensation
dont ya just love it here?

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[Albert]

Funny how it is the liberal Hollywood types that elect the Democrats to the California legislature and governorship and fight for gun control, but make sure that those same laws exempt assault weapons etc. used to make movies and television programs. Gee, I'm Warren Beatty and I don't want to own guns, but I want to be able to shoot them in movies in which I kill cops, look real cool and make lots of money. Oh, but don't blame me when a ganster wanna-be does exactly what I did in the movie, because I have a first amendment right to use guns to pretend to kill lots of people on the big screen. It's time that the liberals in Hollywood realize that the Constitutional Right to Bear Arms is just as important as their right to make bad movies in the name of the First Amendment.

[WAREAGLE]

Right on, Albert!
I've often thought of that. If all the libs in Hollywood want guns banned, then they should be banned from using them on screen. Try to curb their "Freedom of Expression" and watch them get their panties in a wad!!!

[CALIFORNIO]

..I think I'm in trouble...I thought I was in the United States not the Fanatic States!

[Packrat]

Not to flame LE types, but remember how they screamed when the Lautenberg law (domestic violence) DIDN'T exempt them? All of a sudden they got very concerned about something that was of no interest before. If limits to gun ownership suddenly included everyone -- no exceptions, including rent-a-cops, private bodyguards, security companies, etc., you'd see a whole different ball game. But of course, Alex Baldwin can openly advocate killing people with whom he has a political disagreement, and that's all right. Feinstein (or is it Boxer?) NEEDS a CCW because she sometimes goes into rough neighborhoods, but the people who live there can do without. Hanoi Jane once said that she owned guns, even though she was against private gun ownership, "because people like us (movie stars, apparently) aren't like other people". The laws are bad enough, but the unfairness is what really pisses me off.

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Packrat

[JWH]

I recently talked to a retired Superior Court Judge regarding SB23. Looking over new Penal Code Sec. 12285. He concurred that, on its face, Section 12285 means exactly what is says, i.e. that an "assault weapon" owner has 90 days (from 1/1/2000) to obtain the requisite permit from the DOJ. The judge also agreed if a gun-owner subsequently registers the assault weapon without obtaining a permit, he would incriminate himself for a violation of Section 12285. This could have the effect of making criminals of all gun owners who attempt to comply with SB23 by
registering.

Interestingly, while I characterized the conflict between the 90-day rule and the 1-year registration window as a drafting flaw, he was not so generous. "I bet the authors knew exactly what they were doing. They slipped that in there that the State will be able to take away the guns, even if they are registered."

**********

Gentlemen, remember what happened to those people that registered during the "grace period" not long ago?

[LAgunman2K-3]

please inform us MORE on this 90 day thing, you should start a new topic on it and show where in the law it says you must get a permit in 90 days so we ALL can read it and be aware of whats going on
im afraid that your post at the end of this long topic wont inform enough people
thanks for letting us know

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[dissident1776]

JWH, you need to get a legal opinion from that Judge in writing, so that you can use it for your defense, or someone else can.

If you put me in touch with the judge, I can see if I can persuade him.

~Dissed

[Ronin148]

So, sounds like if one choose to register his assault rifles he better do it by the end of March, 2000 or not register at all? Yeah, I would't be suprised if they pull the same stunt with SKS on SB23. Incidently, are any of you clear on when the last day is to purchase? I have heard both 20th and 31th. Thanks

[LAgunman2K-3]

last day to purchase is DEC 20th, you must have the gun in your POSSESSION on DEC 31st
if you decide to pick up the gun on jan 1 YOUR SCREWED!, unless the dealer is willing to break the law
i wish JWH, would state where this clause is at, im sure that if this was the case then the NRA would be all over it telling us whats up, so i dont beleive it
you have ALL of 2000 to register (if you choose to) i would say to register in the last half of 2000 and see that the court battle can bring first, make those politicans wait for your money and gun number
also the SKS is not affected by BS23, the SKS thing something else and ONLY ON DETACH MAG SKS's, if you can put the fixed 10 rnder in the gun then NO Worries --HTH

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[Gun Plumber]

Hello LAgunnman2K,

I picked up a Maadi MISR last Friday here in northern CA. I was talking to the guys behind the counter and they told me they could sell assault rifles right up to the 31st so long as the instant check and paper work was completed on and no later then the 31st? It was news to me too and I still don't believe it! You know how gun dealers are (known to stretch the truth a bit). I'm glad someone else (besides myself) knows whats going on with the SKS's. I've lost count of the people who keep spreading misinformation about ALL SKS's being banned, confiscated or having to be registered! Can't believe it?

[Albert]

Turner's said that they planned to sell only until December 20, but then got confirmation from the Dept. of Justice that guns could be purchased up until 12/31/99 even if they could not be picked up until the new year due to the waiting period. I don't know that I trust the DOJ after what they did with late registered assault weapons under the 1989 law.
As for the SKS, the new law does apply to some SKS's The 1989 law covered SKS's with detachable magazines. The new law only applies to SKS's with fixed magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. So if you have a traditional 10 round fixed magazine SKS, California law neither bans it or requires it to be registered.
On the registration issue, the deadline to register "assault weapons" is 1/1/01, 1 year after SB23 takes effect. Don't expect any grace period after that. However, it does make sense to wait until late 2000, to see if any court challenges succeed in blocking or repealing the law.

[Gun Plumber]

Hey Albert,
It's good to see that some of us know whats going on http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif.

[FMF0311]

I was talking to gun dealer today in Kalifornia and he informed me that its true, they can sell up til Dec 31 as long as DROS is done by then.
And pick up gun no later than 30 days, no sooner than 10 days,that makes pick up date in JAN 2000...............

[LAgunman2K-3]

this is NEW info, ive never heard of that, i looked at a sheet at turners regarding what they are going to be doing this month, it said that no more sales after the 20th, and all guns must be in possession of the owners on the 31st
i guess its possible, but i would rather play it safe and get it HOME by the 31st, save yourself some hassle trying to get after 2000
i would contact the DOJ and get some paper on this before trying to pick it up after 2000 --HTH

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[Ronin148]

Sorry for not making myself clear on the SKS subject. I am aware that only specific types of SKS were banned or required registration in California. As I recall, a few affected SKS owners did not register by the initial deadline and were subsequently granted extension to register their SKSs. That extension was later challenged in court and reversed, so those whom registered during the extension were asked to turn in their SKS.
So, according to JWH's post above, same scenario is plausible with SB23 that the 1 year registration period could be challenged by AG's office or somebody else because of the existing 90-day rule. This is only a speculation, I know the inner workings of gun laws is much more complicated than I can imagine or comprehend. Again, my apologies to Gun Plumber and LAgunman2K.

Now about 12/31/99 as last day to do DROS, anybody seen a posting or written statement by DOJ? If so, I need to make of few copies of that. Thanks

[This message has been edited by Ronin148 (edited 12-17-1999).]

[LAgunman2K-3]

no apology needed ronin
but i would still like to see something on the 90 day thing, ive never heard of this

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[trotsky]

Sigh... this is all very interesting. So, California is redefining what an "Assault Weapon" is, in spite of an existing Federal Law that defines the term http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif Did I miss something, or wasn't Federal Law superior to state law?

I'm a native born Californian living in another state... I code computers for a living - and I've had many offers from Silicon Valley companies. In every case, I turn 'em down and tell them why: I will not move back to my state & if they want employees like me, they should relocate their business. I encourage every gun owning cyber geek to LEAVE California. Go to work for Sun, Oracle, even Microsoft OUT OF STATE. If you wouldn't work in Iraq, why would you work here?

[Heavy Trigger]

To HELL with California law!!!!!

If you live there, DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME!!!!

Don't you see what's happening?? Tell them to kiss your ass, don't register and don't apoligize. If they come for you, do what you've been talking about for years. Do what you've rehearsed in your mind.

It's time!

If enough will do it you will win.
If enough will not do it, you die like men, and you still win. Make the cowards come and get you!

Anyone who refuses to fight until he's the only one with a weapon is a coward. That's what they are doing!

We will prevail!

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Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom?!

Pro Libertate - For Freedom

[bruce]

The cutoff date for purchase is a topic of much confusion. I called the DOJ myself, got the name of the agent I spoke to. He assured me you could buy up to 12/31/99 as long as the DROS went in before the close of business that day. Funny, the DROS doesn't include any serial numbers! Those are in the dealers record of sale you sign when you pick up. They aren't in the DOJ computer until you send in the little AW card.

I haven't heard that you have 90 days to register , and by the way the full text of the bill is on line at www.ca.gov., (http://www.ca.gov.,) also check out www. regagun.org, the wonderful offical CA AW registration site! Your tax dollars at work!

I wonder what they paid some geek to set this gem up.

By the way, how many of you got screwed by dealers in CA working the ban for every dollar they could? I paid $450 for a stinkin' Maddi - I was told Century wouldn't send them in time, then suddenly they appeared. I guess it's my own fault for waiting till the last minute and not keeping closer track of legislation. I sold all my pre-bans 'cause I thought SB 23 would make me give them up.

Be glad you live elsewhere but if you do, be warned! CA sets the trends for the rest of the USA. Talk to your Congressman and make some contributions. It's the only way to keep this mess from spreading.