.45-120 BP cartridges...HELP!!!

[Poodleshooter]

What loads are you using? Pyrodex CTG??? Bullet type/weight? Paper patch? I take it you are using 120gr of Black powder or Pyrodex under a patched bullet (350,420, 485gr can't remember which was standard). If you need loading info, check out www.midwayusa.com (http://www.midwayusa.com) (I think that's it). Look for a reloading guide by Lyman. They're specialists in cast bullet rifles and cowboy action type equipment. Those guns are neat, but WOW is the brass expensive. I'm no expert on black powder cartridge reloading, but I shoot a lot of BP and reload lots of smokeless!

[gunner]

Thanks for the interest dude...I'm loading 120 grains of 1F goex black powder into a 3 1/4" bell brass, 215 federal magnum rifle primer, 2ea. .030 veg wads, and Lyman 535 grain postell factory bullet. I have used a high quality/expensive match grade, hand casted bullet of the same weight and size and it seems to work better...but who can afford $25.00 for 50 bullets...not including all the other costs? If you know of anyone with this gun and they can get theirs to shoot right...tell them I need to know what they are doing, I'm not! I've tried various books and just can't find a lot of info on this caliber of weapon. It's sure not like shooting an AK!

[This message has been edited by Gunner (edited 07-24-2000).]

[gunner]

Can anyone help me get my Quigley Style .45-120 gun to shoot right...it shoots good the first round then bullets go all over the place and some are even tumbling. I just bought my first (and maybe last) black powder cartridge rifle. Its a Pedrosoli made gun that I can get no tech support on. I have had to teach myself how to load and obviously am not doing something right. I did get one batch of 15 rds to the target 6" @ 100 yards using cross sticks but can't remember how I loaded them. I think the gun will shoot right but need some suggestions on loading and what brand of bullets work best etc. Thanks

[JA]

535 grains sounds real heavy for a .45. Is the rifling twist fast enough for that heavy of a bullet?

[Poodleshooter]

Is 'F' grade the recommended powder for BP cartridge guns? I know pyrodex calls theirs Pyrodex CTG, but I don't know how coarse it is. I assumed it was between 'FF' and 'FFF' on the Goex scale. I know with regular muzzleloaders, 'F' Goex is used for .58 calibers and above or for shotgun loads.
.45 caliber is better used with 'FF'. I know that a coarser grade of powder will give less velocity given the same volume in the chamber/case. Maybe you're not getting enough velocity from 'F', and that heavy bullet isn't stabilizing??? What do the manuals recommend? If failure to stabilize was caused by insufficient velocity, another culprit might be over-lubed paper wads deadening some of the powder charge (I've seen it happen with oversoaked patches in frontloaders). Still another option is a hotter primer,to assure complete ignition, though the Federal LR magnum ought to be plenty hot enough.

[gunner]

Everyone has told me that 1F goex black powder is the way to go with a .45-120. I'm not sure about the bullet wieght but have been told that I don't want to use a 300 or 400 grain one. They go all the way up 570 gr for this cal. I just tried the size I was recommeded by the guy that molded them for me. Of course he says he can't tell me what's wrong with out shooting the gun...he is in Colorado...I'm in Alabama...keep em smokin...out!

[Mikester]

A very good, extensive article in June 1999 handloader magazine (still available for $6)about reloading for 45-100;http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?id=7
Gist of it, use SPG lube, a drop tube when charging cases, (make sure powder measure is designed for black powder, don't want a kaboom!)slug the bore (carefully),use Federal 215 primers, try jacketed bullets to make sure everything is right.
A couple of links with tech support; http://www.m-s-co.com/sso/index.html http://www.hunterstalk.com/talk/Blackpowder/Jul26.html
Actually the 405 gr bullet is fine for hunting, but the 535 gr Postell is the "hot setup" for 500 yd matches
Call Montana Precision Swaging at 406-782-7502 and get a catalog, that is way too much for bullets!
Keep us informed on progress!
Ooops, the link to handloader magazine didn't come up, I guess you will have to type it in.


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DO RIGHT, AND FEAR NO ONE

[This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 07-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 07-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 07-27-2000).]

[STG-44]

Gunner,

What is the rifling twist of your barrel? If the rifling twist is too slow (1 turn in 48 ") your bullets aren't being stablized and are basically tumbling down range. It could also be that the bullets aren't the right diameter for the barrel.

Take a soft lead slug (a .50 caliber muzzle loading round ball will do nicely) and push it through the barrel from breech to muzzle with a cleaning rod. You may have to hammer it to get it to through. Then measure the slug and size the bullets to that diameter. Cast your own bullets and size them to the diameter of the slug. Don't worry if they are .001-.003" over, the bullets will swage themselves down upon firing.

Hope this helped.

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STG-44

[Sharps Shooter]

Gunner: Here's how I do it. I'm loading for 40-65, but the principles remain the same. Use a soft alloy bullet, about 25 to 1 seems to work best for me. Be sure to size the bullet at least .001 to .002" over bore diameter, in your case .458 to .460 will work well. I like Emmerts lube which you can make at home for nearly nothing.

Using a drop tube or a Lyman 55 measure set up for black, you gotta figure out your loading density. It is sort of backwards from figuring out how to load smokeless. First figure out seating depth for the bullet by how far from the rifling you want the first driving band. Using the tail of your calipers, figure out how much room taken up in the case by the bullet. Add to that the amount of room taken up by the wads, and if you use it (and I do, and recommend it heartily) the grease wad and over powder wad. Now you have what I call "stack height".

Depending on the powder you use, it will like a certain amount of compression. With the Elephant 25/99 lot I have found about .15" compression seems to work best, so now comes the experimentation with your volumetric powder measure. Throw charges and adjust the measure so that you get a volume of powder which, when compressed to the degree you want, fills the case appropriately. Then use your compression die to uniformly compress charges. I have found that I let the press handle "go over" TDC a few times while the compression plug is in the cases so that it is uniform. You get a feel for it after awhile.

Then use some "brood comb" type wax... it comes in sheets... to form an over powder wad. Using the case like a cookie cutter, go ahead and place a wad of beeswax in the case mouth. Follow this with a grease cookie of appropriate thickness, inserted on top of the wax disc in the same manner... like a cookie cutter. Then the wad. Then place the bullet on top of the wad, I like .030 fiber wads. Be sure the base of the bullet is free from any lube. Then seat as normal... the idea here is to leave no voids or spaces in your loaded cartridge.

Voila! loaded round.

Your use of Fed 215's seems to be what I have the best luck with. Be sure to get a blow tube to keep fouling soft. Breathe out through the blow tube at least 3 long breaths after each shot. You will know if it is doing its job when you run a dry patch through the bore and it comes clean only using a blow tube.

Hope this helps some.
Regards,
Sharps Shooter
'74 Sharps... when you care enough to use the very best.