Help with French Mas 49/56 .308 conversion

[Janosk]

Hi All,
I'm seriously contemplating one of the re-arsenaled French Mas 49/56 rifles which SOG currently has. As the 7.5mm French round is fairly expensive & difficult to find, I'd like to have the rifle professionaly converted to .308. I know that a few were brought in as converted jobs, but I've heard mixed reviews about them. Anyway, does anyone know of any good gunsmiths who are capable of offering this conversion service for a reasonable price? Also, I recall reading somewhere that the rifles can be modified to accept the metric FAL magazines rather then the standard French ones. Does anyone happen to have any info on that issue as well?
Many thanks!
John
PS I have seen Mccann's conversion option, but I'm not interested in something that fancy or expensive. I'd like to keep the original aesthetics of the rifle intact as much as possible.

[Richard Simmons]

Here's what I know. The Century converted ones seem to have extraction problems. There is a guy in PA that does the conversion to 7.62x51. He also makes the gas system adjustable like on the FAL. I will post a link when I find it. IIRC the conversion was under $200. I believe he quit doing the FAL mag thing. Since the MAS uses a clip/release on the mag and not the rifle, each mag has to be hand fit to the rifle. Don't know where the clips came from unless a 49/56 mag was sacraficed.

[BlackBore]

Why not just start reloading for the 7.5 French ? That's what I anticipate doing when I get myself a Mas 49/56 :D

[Janosk]

Thanks for the info guys. Richard, if you could post the link for the guy in PA, I'd be much obliged... I looked for him on the net, but couldn't find anything... I'm a bit hesitant to start reloading as I've never done it before. Someday I hope to, but I suppose it's just going to be easier for me to go with the .308 (plus, i can use it as an excuse to buy more .308 caliber guns!!).
Thanks,
John

[jimmyjoebob]

Hey Deal A Meal- I got this one for ya

Yes there is a guy up in PA that is doing the conversions here is his info:
Bill Toth ( pronounced tawth)
Design Systems Technologies
570-458-0140

his address is now
2A Old Green Creek Rd
Benton, PA 17814


As far as his services he does the following for the MAS

Convert to Firing Pin to a spring loaded one $20
308 conersion $170
plus shipping


I talked to him last month, and Deal a Meal is correct, he no longe does the FAL mag conversions, he has also stopped making the adjustable gas system He said that he found another way that works better when he converts the rilfe to 308

He said it take him about 2 months to do the conversion.

He also said the he prefers that you send in the rifle first so that he can really look at the workings of the bolt and such, sometimes they require extra milling and stuff for proper function. He stated that he will notify you before he does any of this, so that you can agree on a price.

As for payment, he does not take PAypal, CC, or any of that jazz. He told me to send him a personal check after he finishes the rifle.


In all honesty I will have this done as well, but we are in the process of possibly moving. When I talked to Mr.Toth on the phone he was very nice, a tad long winded, but then again most yankees are :D Just look at Zouv:) :D :eek:

From what I hear he is " the man" for MAS rifles. I do agree 7.5 French is expensive and what mostly is out there is crap. Of course I already have a shitload of 308 rifles, but what is one more.

Good luck and if you send yours in before me, let me know, I definately what any updates and stuff that he tells you.


Good luck

James

[lpspinner]

I've seen his website and talked to him. He's pretty good, though I have yet to have my MAS 49/56 converted. I'm fairly happy with the 7.5 french round. If you're a reloader, I've read on another board, that you can successfully use 6.5 swedish brass, trim it a little and then run it thru a LEE 7.5 MAS die.

Here's his website. (http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/rifles/mas/mas.html)

I think she looks beautiful, but for you purist collectors may not like it. At 200 a pop, why not buy one to collect and one to play with?


http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/rifles/mas/MasCloseLG.jpg

[Richard Simmons]

That's the guy. I wonder if he will rechamber the MAS36 or 36-51 rifles? I would rather have one of those in .308 to use along side my CETME. The bolt actions require that the forearm be shortened as well. One of the CAO, Ufixem MAS36 rifles would be just about right for conversion if the bore is good.

[jimmyjoebob]

Deal a Meal-
I am unsure if he does bolt actions, It would not hurt to call and ask. As for the process on the 49/56 all that is really needed is to shave 9/16 off the chamber and them reream it, There is a link on the process on the JPFO website. Some springs have to be changed as well, but that is only in the Century conversion rifles. However I do agree with you it would be nice to have a u fexem 36 rechambered.


LPSpinner-
I am thinking that janosk was wanting to keep his rifle origional. Although that conversion is neat, it looks fairly ugly. But hey whatever floats your boat

[lpspinner]

Originally posted by jimmyjoebob


LPSpinner-
I am thinking that janosk was wanting to keep his rifle origional. Although that conversion is neat, it looks fairly ugly. But hey whatever floats your boat

I kinda liked it, cause I can use any AR-15 buttstock and pistol grip. This is the link from the JPFO site. That's how I found him. He was telling me that you can do the .308 conversion without buying the lower half, keeping the recevier original.

I'm keeping my MAS as close to original as possible, but I wouldn't mind doing another one for fun.

[jimmyjoebob]

i agree with you there, if you have 2 go ahead and get funky with one, but keep the other origional. Pesonally I have not seen the need for 2 MAS 49s yet, but who knows I might.

[Richard Simmons]

Since it's only ten rd mag could you use a collapsible buttstock on the McCain conversion?

[lpspinner]

Originally posted by Richard Simmons
Since it's only ten rd mag could you use a collapsible buttstock on the McCain conversion?

Well the 10 round is not an issue, it's the fact that it's a detachable mag, and since the MAS 49/56 doesn't really have a bayonet lug.

Wait, detachable mag, pistol grip and collapsible stock. I think this would make it an assault weapon. (2 evil features that have killed a lot of people) I think you can use the pistol grip and the fake collapsible and you're ok.

Either way, I think this would void the C&R status, so you can log it out of your book.

[Janosk]

Guys,
Thanks again for all the help. I'm gonna drop a copy of the c&r ffl in the mail this afternoon to SOG. I had hoped to avoid SOG entirely based on the horror stories, but it looks like they are the only game in town as far as the Mas 49/56's go (I have no desire to pay another $120 with Empire Arms). Now, all I have to do is cross my fingers and hope that SOG will ship the rifle to Massachusetts!! i had heard somewhere that they didn't ship guns to MA (ignorance), so I have my fingers crossed. It will be sweet to have one of these in .308 (especially if I know the conversion has been done RIGHT)...
Thanks again guys,
John

[lpspinner]

Originally posted by Janosk
Guys,
Thanks again for all the help. I'm gonna drop a copy of the c&r ffl in the mail this afternoon to SOG. I had hoped to avoid SOG entirely based on the horror stories, but it looks like they are the only game in town as far as the Mas 49/56's go (I have no desire to pay another $120 with Empire Arms). Now, all I have to do is cross my fingers and hope that SOG will ship the rifle to Massachusetts!! i had heard somewhere that they didn't ship guns to MA (ignorance), so I have my fingers crossed. It will be sweet to have one of these in .308 (especially if I know the conversion has been done RIGHT)...
Thanks again guys,
John

Janosk:
I've had fairly good luck so far with SOG. Remember they are a big company, so don't expect that personalize treatment you get from the smaller companies. I haven't been disappointed yet and they will make good. If you don't like it, they will try to make it right.

As long as Mass. doesn't have any laws about Grenade Launchers, you should be fine.

Good Luck.

[AKWARRIOR]

I would not advise doing this.Just go find a Mas 49/56 in 308.They are out there.Dont ruin a piece of history.My Mas 49/56 is due to my door from SOG today in fact.Ill post a report on it ASAP.


Regards,

[jimmyjoebob]

AK the price difference in a mas in 308 and a MAS in 7.5 is dramatic, normally a 308 MAS runs $450 to $500. ANd then there is the issue of faulty conversions that Century did. The SOG guns are excellent condition and many are unfired, mine was. I am not
sure why you are so hard on SOG, yes they make mistakes, and yes they will fix it. Everyone makes mistakes. I can only think of maybe a dozen posts here about peoples orders being shitty. However very few even bothered to try to make a return. SOG sell what maybe 10,000 guns a month? If they only have 50-100 returns they are not doing bad. I have ordered a crap load from them over the past year and it all had been good, no problems. I suggest you order from them yourself instead of pulling the " will jimmy joe and erma lee said they suck, so I will tell the world they suck" Besides they are one of the few places that does give is good deals, let's not piss on their shoes just yet.

[jimmyjoebob]

Originally posted by lpspinner


Well the 10 round is not an issue, it's the fact that it's a detachable mag, and since the MAS 49/56 doesn't really have a bayonet lug.

Wait, detachable mag, pistol grip and collapsible stock. I think this would make it an assault weapon. (2 evil features that have killed a lot of people) I think you can use the pistol grip and the fake collapsible and you're ok.

Either way, I think this would void the C&R status, so you can log it out of your book.


Yes it has a bayo lug, remember the defination is that, so long as a bayonet was made for the rifle and it can be attached in some manner to the barrel. In the case of the MAS it slides over the barrel and locks onto the gernade launcher housing( another evil feature) There is also the flash hider, and the detachable mag. Besides putting a folding stock on a postban imported weapon is a NONO. And yes doing the Mccain Industires mod, will void the C&R status of the weapon. because it is now an assault weapon, how he is getting around the US parts count isue I have no clue, unless it is considered a domestic made rifle. But under the ATF rulings a modified foreign part is still considered foreign. If you are going to proceed with this type of conversion, I would get a copy of their approval letter from the ATF. A defiante CYA move

[lpspinner]

Originally posted by jimmyjoebob



Yes it has a bayo lug, remember the defination is that, so long as a bayonet was made for the rifle and it can be attached in some manner to the barrel. In the case of the MAS it slides over the barrel and locks onto the gernade launcher housing( another evil feature) There is also the flash hider, and the detachable mag. Besides putting a folding stock on a postban imported weapon is a NONO. And yes doing the Mccain Industires mod, will void the C&R status of the weapon. because it is now an assault weapon, how he is getting around the US parts count isue I have no clue, unless it is considered a domestic made rifle. But under the ATF rulings a modified foreign part is still considered foreign. If you are going to proceed with this type of conversion, I would get a copy of their approval letter from the ATF. A defiante CYA move

Well actually No, because the complete McCann conversion uses a Heavy Douglas air gauged barrel, AR-15 type adjustable gas system, free floated AR-15 type hand guard, muzzle break, titanium firing pin, aluminum AR-15 style lower receiver, AR-15 buffer tube, butt stock and pistol grip. So there is no bayonet lug.

His only evil feature would be the detachable Mag with a pistol grip. So this would not be considered an AW. If he kept the original barrel, that's a whole different story all together. But no matter what, the C&R status would be void. It would become a regular semi-auto rifle.

[jimmyjoebob]

lp-
ok i did not know they put the badger barrel on, so yes he would be ok then on evil features, but the real question is where it would be considered a foreign gun or a domestic made one. You are still using the Foreign receiver, and since it is changing to a regular rifle it would void the C&R status then it has to follow 922r( 10 parts rule), since then it would be a post 1994 made weapon. So yes there stillis some murkness to the waters, and I would like to see the approval letter from the ATF before I did this conversion

[Ezra Coli]

Originally posted by lpspinner
Either way, I think this would void the C&R status, so you can log it out of your book.

My understanding is that C&R can't be voided. if you have a gun that is amde up of 99% non-C&R parts but on a C&R receiver, you have to log it because its the receiver thats considered the weapon. If you have a 100 year old rifle with a brand new replacement receiver, not C&R.

C&R weapons are also bound by any other regs like the AW ban and such, though the BAT F is seemingly not as strict with what gets through these days.

[lpspinner]

Originally posted by Ezra Coli


My understanding is that C&R can't be voided. if you have a gun that is amde up of 99% non-C&R parts but on a C&R receiver, you have to log it because its the receiver thats considered the weapon. If you have a 100 year old rifle with a brand new replacement receiver, not C&R.

C&R weapons are also bound by any other regs like the AW ban and such, though the BAT F is seemingly not as strict with what gets through these days.

But to be a C&R it's needs to be in it's original configuration and since C&R holders are technically not allowed to buy receivers (receivers alone are not C&R), why would you log it in. It's really not a C&R MAS49/56 anymore. The configuration has changed.

Now, on this subject I'm on the line with, cause I just ordered a slightly demilled M1 Carbine receiver from Sarco and I had to do the transfer thru my local pawnshop. Since it's treated as a regular item and receivers are not C&R, do i not log it in until the day I build my rifle? It's an Inland receiver.

Hopefully an expert can chime in here.

[Ezra Coli]

Originally posted by lpspinner


But to be a C&R it's needs to be in it's original configuration and since C&R holders are technically not allowed to buy receivers (receivers alone are not C&R), why would you log it in. It's really not a C&R MAS49/56 anymore. The configuration has changed.


Well, ATF told me that in order to log some mosins out of my book the receiver had to be destroyed. They said that even if its sporterized. My dad wanted one, I let him chop up a rusty nasty one (don't tell anyone!) and called the ATF to see what the rule was on changing the rifle and how to log it. They told me as long as the receiver is in existence, since the ATF classifies receivers as the weapon, I need to log it and keep it logged until I sell it or destroy it, sporterized or not. Just FWIW.

[lpspinner]

Ezra Coli:

Thanks for that. I guess I will have to log in my M1 Carbine receiver.
Isn't that just expected from ATF. You can't buy a C&R receiver directly, but you still have to treat the receiver like one.

[zouavexx]

bump :)