Bushey Comes Thru!

[recon]

I did this on purpose. I had shot my Bushey back in the fall. Didn't clean it at all. Took it out this weekend and it worked like a charm! No jams! Nothing! Mags,ammo no problems at all! :D

[imanaknut]

You beat me to it Recon, I fired 300 rounds of SA surplus through my Bushy a couple of weeks ago, put it away hot and dirty to see what would happen when I take it out next weekend. Great to hear of your success! :jump:

[gr8vfr]

What kind of oil did you use?

Break Free CLP?

[recon]

Shooters Choice FP-10! Great stuff! I even use it on my AK's! :rockin:

[imanaknut]

I used CLP, we will see!:D

[gibsonite]

I think most of the jamming reputation stems from when the M-16 was first introduced in Vietnam. The new rifle was rushed into service, and the ammunition that was supplied really wasn't much good. On the one hand it was a bad idea to change firearms in the middle of a war. On the other hand, the M-14 really wasn't designed to counter the AK, so they really needed something that was up to date. I know wiseguys usually say the M-16 wasn't much of a jungle gun either. lol

Between improving the ammunition and tweaking the design of the rifle, they've really managed to make it much more reliable.

That thing about them jamming all the time is a lot like the "AK's cannot be accurate." thing. Anyone that's fired and RPK, Dragunov or a VEPR series knows that isn't true. Anyone that's used a Colt or Bushmaster AR for any amount of time usually finds them to be quite reliable. Just more parts to clean really.

Only makes sense doesn't it though? There would be improvements in each those rifle designs over the years to compensate for their original shortcomings. I think my personal favorite "hybrid" is the VEPR II in .223. Sort of gets the best of both worlds, although the availability of magazines in quantity is an issue.

Enjoy that Bushmaster!

-Gibitude :cool:

[PBR]

I am not surprised.

[gibsonite]

Definitely a point there Cosair,

To own and operate an AR will absolutely be more expensive. I know if we're talking Bushmaster or Colt, you really want to be selective about your ammo if you don't want to spend more time fixing jams. It is choosey about its diet.

The AK does have the advantage of being a firearms version of a garbage disposal unit. Much like my kid brother was with dinner when we were kids. Didn't matter what it was, he would eat it all.

The AR with the .223 will to a neater job on your targets from a greater range, but it does require more care. The parts for the AK are definitely more reasonable, then again, think of where they're made.

I like the VEPR II in .223 because it has the accuracy of the AR, and the reliability of the Kalashnikov. Good combination.

Take care!

-Gibitude :jump:

[imanaknut]

Didn't get to shoot it this weekend, relatives showed up and expected me to entertain them. At least I got my sister to try my SAR-1. Two rounds and that was it. My daughter worked on my sister to shoot her Ruger 10/22. After a couple of rounds, my daughter took it back, loaded a 25 round Butler Creek Banana and proceded to put 23 through a 1 inch circle with the other two "fliers" at 1 1/2 inches. This was done at 25 meters with all rounds fired in a one minute drill. Lord I love that kid.

After trying to get my "family" to do some shooting, my daughter and I gave up and we headed home. The Bushy never even came out of it's box.

And my sister says that she wants to get a hand gun. I hope not. My brother wouldn't even touch a loaded rifle. At least he did check them out when we got home. Oh well......

[gibsonite]

Personally, I wouldn't get a VEPR II in .223 without the longer barrel. The whole point of getting the .223 version is the accuracy advantage. The round was really designed for the longer barrel anyway.

The one I use most is the VEPR K, but that's in 7.62x39. Much easier to get magazines for it. Plus, at 100 yards and under, using the Kobra sight shooting rapidly, there really isn't much difference in the accuracy.

But if we're talking hybrids, basically a combination of the best qualities in AR vs AK, then I'd pick the VEPR II in .223 Very little recoil, tremendous accuracy, and tough as all get out.

I personally prefer the Kalashnikov over the AR because its less trouble and more fun for me. But if I'm gonna spend big bucks, I don't think the AR would be my first choice. I'd get an Aug first. That bullpup has it all over the AR for me any day. I'm sure some prefer the AR just the same, but if I have my choice on a high dollar rifle, that's what I'd do. Maybe a SIG also. Both of those before an AR. But that's just me. I like the AR too.

-Gibitude :cool:

[gr8vfr]

never thought I would hear him say that, but 18 months of heavy use have changed his mind. he now has 3-4k though the busy and it is time to replace the bolt, some $600 he says in parts plus time. man, for that he could buy (2) sar 2's.


OK...Did I miss something here?

You can buy an entire BM for 600.00.

For that matter he could buy all the parts on eBey including tools for less than 600.00.



:rant:

[Circuits]

Why would he replace the bolt at 4k rounds?

AR's vary in quality and dependability. My one factory bushy always went bang, except for one batch of 62gr Wolf .223 which gave consistent failures to extract in every AR-15/M16 I own.

I've had some failures to extract with some of my shorties, with certain ammo (SB SS109, S&B "M193" and some of the 90's SA surplus with DNL headstamp), but was able to get them 99.9% reliable even with that ammo by polishing the chambers and adding an extractor insert.

[recon]

Extractor insert? :D

[HD#1]

All of the above is why I shoot a preban Daewoo K2 best combo of AK and AR shoots dirty like a AK is accurate like a AR.

Some have called it the best thing behind the AUG.

[gibsonite]

HD#1,

Yeah, that AUG is really something huh? Funny that you don't hear more about them on these forums. Haven't had the good fortune to try the K2 personally.

-Gibitude :cool:

[per35]

I'm an avid AK owner, but in the AR's defense I cant see it failing after a few hundred rounds, I have taken both my Colt (16" bar) and Bush (16" disapator) out and shot over 1000 rds through them both in a single day, and not one malfunction. Not sure what you guys are doing but maybe you might wanna look at something you are doing or not doing ????

[TEXAS GUNMAN]

Im a AK man, have been for some time now, I'd purchashed a new Bushmaster A2 shorty just before going out to the ranch & staying there for a week of shooting.
I ran over a thousand rounds in both rifles, didnt have one single problem.

I was very pleased with the new Bushmaster, all the mags worked, no jams or FTF etc, accuracy was most excellent.
:cool:

TG

[War Dawg]

Originally posted by cosair

never thought I would hear him say that, but 18 months of heavy use have changed his mind. he now has 3-4k though the busy and it is time to replace the bolt, some $600 he says in parts plus time. man, for that he could buy (2) sar 2's.

seems to me the AR is the choice of those with $$$, support system, lots of time to tinker and clean, lots of spare parts and NEW magazines. (more high $$$) guess that is why they work OK for the us military.

Thank God there are AKs for the rest of us. [/B]

Man from that statement,he don't know much about weapons.Atleast his AR.You can buy a complete rifle for alittle over $600 .A bolt won't run you much over $40.If it is a bolt problem I would bet Bushmaster would make it right and give him another one. Bolts don't wear out in that many rounds unless it left the factory defective.If he is haveing all the jams you say he is haveing there is certainly something wrong with the rifle.No you don't have to keep them clean.A MYTH. Just a little lube. AR breaks parts.(MYTH) . A Military spec part will last a long time.A cheap aftermarket is a BIG ???? Also sounds like he is running out of spec ammo through it.Wolf is not the ammo of choice.Some rifle run fine with it but others don't. Put a NATO spec ammo in it and you should see a difference.The AR is the Superior rifle in the hands of a trained modern soldier. The AK is the perfect weapon for the " Hey you commrad, you just been drafted, here's your rifle get on the front line and die for your country!".It's totally reliable,I will agree there.But they do jam.All semi's /Auto's do and can jam.Don't fool yourself into thinking that it can't and won't happen.Nature of the Beast. Now if your arguement is who will or might jam first AK or AR ??<<<,,,, I would lean to the AR stopping before the AK.If you had to choose between the AK or AR to make a shot 200 + mm --- 400+ mm , sure in hell wouldn't grab the AK.Now some say the VERP is accurate.Im sure it is ,but its a bastard AK.Thats like me grabbing a full blown Comp AR.Its not a standard AR either. Now I carried the M16 A1 & A2 in the military,.I have had AR's for 23+ years. I own more AK's than AR's. I shoot more AK's than AR's ( Cost of ammo) I don't shoot junk through my AR's. If I had to grab one rifle to shit and get )( SHTF ) scenario , it will be my Colt AR Hbar or an M14 . In the trained hands the AR is SUPERIOR rifle in the hands of a trained individual.This is my OPINION and my experiance with these weapons systems. We went through a Soviet Block weapons course and got to fire a Real AK 47. We had one Jam on full auto. But the rifle was realiable.Hard to hit 300 mm targets with it though. Cheers WarDawg

[TEXAS GUNMAN]

cosair, some people shouldn't be allowed to own a AR rifle, for obvious reasons.

Stick to the no brainer almost maintenance free AK's.

I never had the problems mention with my bushy, or with the m16 while serving the army.

TG:rolleyes:

[remy1492]

no joke about DRILLS on failures to fire etc..
taprackbang.

M4s here,
Click - shit, round jammed in old mil mag
Click- shit, failiure to strike primer or sth
Click- double feed, drop mag, bolt to rear, collapse stock, bang rifle on ground, no luck yet? stick finger into HOT mag well and receiver to get round out (nomex gloves a must).

one thing after another , you pull hthe trigger and wonder, will this burst of fire even get past 1 round?

With an AK you have assurance it probably will go BANG (as you guys said). :)

Remy

[War Dawg]

Corsair if your buddie was haveing that many problems out of the rifle ,there was an individual rifle, problem.There was cetainly something wrong with it. While manufactuors say Mil spec, it ain't mil spec unless it's got Property of USA on it. It's more like close to mil spec. Normally bushmaster is good at building there rilfes.But a few make it through the cracks.Sorry your friend got a lemon.Sounds like maybe a gas leak.They had a problem at one time with the front site housen haveing a leak with Bushies.I too like shooting my SAR 2. It's more accurate than my 47's but still ain't no AR.But accurate anough for most things. The most jamming rifle I own is a Bugarian AK 74.Its a beatiful rifle , accurate, light , and a jamming mother pucker. :) ... It won't shoot a 30 rnd mag without two jams. Wolf ammo.Same wolf that I shoot in my SAR 2 with no jams. It ain't a mag problem, swapped mags.I know theres a mechanical problem with this rifle.I haven't quite figured it out yet. AK mags can be duds also. I have alot of them and have come across two brand new mags that won't funtion.Ones a new East german steel mag, and another is a steel Chinese mag.Cleaned and oiled.I believe both was made out of spec.It freezes the follower up about half way.To tight.I took a hammer to them and trashed them.You may be right about being trained on AR's for so long that its like the back of my hand operating them.Heck it takes me longer to operate a AK than my AR's.Go through the motion without thinking.SPORTS. Slap ,pull, observe,release,tap, squeeze. WarDawg U.S. ARMY 4/23 Infatry 1985-1989 ( SEMPER PRIMUS)

[War Dawg]

Originally posted by cosair
wardog,
by any chance was your bulgarian 74 built on a US receiver?



Yes its built on a OOW reciever.And I too figure the problem lies in there somewhere.I did have something that ain't anyone I ever talked to ever seen. I took the bolt apart when the jams started and the extractor spring was broke.I had another parts kit so I just swapped them out(springs).But the jams continued, so no luck there.But Ive traced it to the reciver,( nothing else left.)
The AK vs M16/AR debate is old and will always get airtime.Just to many off them each made.Both are war proven rifles.To many dead people from both rifles to argue that . Everyone likes a different flavor of icecream, mine just happens to be an M16/AR with the M14 second.AK third. Cheers WarDawg