5.45x39mm reloads range report

[JA]

Well everything went pretty good the CCI #41 military primers cured the slam fire problem.
The .222Rem cases did better than the ones made from .223 cases(3 out of 20 split) out of 28 only one case failure/split.
The first 2 rounds in the fully loaded 30rd mag wouldn't chamber from the mag but after removing them the other 28 feed and fired fine. Since the .222 cases are the same diameter as the .223 cases and SAR-3 owners report feeding problems with over 20 rds in a 5.45 mag. I assume this is the reason for the feeding problems with the mag fully loaded. I will reload the fireformed .222 brass and report back after my next range trip.
Here is a pic of the split case. The arrow points to the split. It had soot all around the split but I wiped it off to scan it. Don't know which one it was as all 28 cartridges functioned the rifle and ejected just fine.
Anyone have a idea why this happened?
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=168111&a=1248319&p=28209721

[This message has been edited by JA (edited 09-12-2000).]

[This message has been edited by JA (edited 09-12-2000).]

[03a4 guy]

I've got a question for you. Where did you find 5.45 bullets? I guess I don't understand, but I thought the russian case has a larger head diameter than the .222 or .223. What powder did you use? Thanks.

[Poodleshooter]

Details, man, details! So you just fireformed .222 cases to the 5.45 chamber? Are any dies available for this cartridge? Powder? bullets? As for the rupture, that seems to be right where AK's usually dent brass cases-perhaps that + fireforming caused this one to rupture???

[RogerLee]

Poodleshooter,
its listed at: http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/Forum3/HTML/000063.html

JA,
how is the nosler 60gr bullets working for the 5.45mm?

RogerLee

[JA]

Several old posts which no longer appear on this forum. I guess the last time the ak-47.net was down they got deleated. The posts were by Brisco2 in Feb-March 1999. www.leeprecision.com (http://www.leeprecision.com) makes a bullet lube and sizing kit. Call them and order one in .221". It is special order $25 and will take 3-4 weeks to get it. It looks just like a reloading die and screws into your press. The punch that pushes the bullet through the die fits the press ram just like a shell holder does. The first thing you need to do is clean the inside of the die out. I used brake parts cleaner and q-tips. Lube the inside of the die with a q-tip dipped in lube. Then lube a bullet and start it nose first into the die.
Full length rezing die sets can be gotten from www.huntingtons.com (http://www.huntingtons.com) #56056=$86.95. The new 222 cases are lubed very well and run into the full length resizing die. Then trimmed to the correct length with a RCBS case trimmer.
When you order dies get some CCI #41 primers from Huntingtons also.
The 5.45x39mm falls between the .221 Fireball and the .222Remington in case capasity. As per Brisco2 suggestions on using Reloader-7 powder for his 40gr bullet 5.45x39mm loads. I noticed that there were .5-1 grains less RL-7 used in the 221fireball than the 222Remington with 60gr bullets. There was no dato for 69gr bullets in the 221Fireball but were in 222 Remington so I just dropped the charge 1.5 grains for the 69gr bullet in the 5.45. I used 14.5grs of RL-7 as fire forming load with the resized 69gr Hornady hollow point match bullets.
As for futher exsperments on the reloading of 5.45x39mm they are on hold. As I have been sick and had surgery twice in the last 3 months. The last surgery was 2 weeks ago. I can't sit in a chair over 10-15 mins without taking pain medication and don't want to do any reloading on drugs.

[Sharps Shooter]

The bullet sizing die looks like a good idea. However, it just doesn't make sense that a 222 case which head is significantly smaller than the 5.45 case head, would work in this application. Not saying you didn't make it work, but I just don't see it!

[JA]

It is smaller but that is all there is to work with. The correct head size brass would be 9mm luger. But the the longest brass with the same head size is the 9mm Win Mag(9x29.5mm) but it is to short to form 5.45x39mm by 10mm.

[CAMPYBOB]

this is cool info!

[bob]

Does any one know if you could open up a remington bolt and use that action for the 5.45?.006 out of each side of the bolt face and off the extractor for 222/223/222mag family .I'm not sure of the rim thickness or the cartridge overall lenght,but the .222 mag is 2.325 long with .045 thick rim.
I was thinking the 222mag because of the long bullet.

[JA]

btt

[AK-74]

Why Can't we get the real deal from Russia ?
What , they can import ammo , but not the the stuff to reload it your self ? All we would need would be the cases , and the bullets .

Ak-74

[CAMPYBOB]

guys...good things come to those that wait!

[Schuetzenman]

Interesting information guys.

JA, I have a little input for you in forming brass and necking it down. Brass does grow in length especially if you are taking a straight case and reducing it to a necked case of a smaller caliber.

I've done this with .357 Maximum brass. This was a project to make a 7 mm version of .22 Remington Jet for a single shot Schuetzen rifle application. those cases got a bunch longer. Was it 10 mm . . . ? (shruggs shoulders.) Don't know but it was considerable.

I would argue that if you come up a little short on kneck but have the shoulder length and case body correct you can probably get by with it. Also after a couple of reloads, the case will continue to grow in length. They might be able to be grown the full distance. Any way it's an Idea. That 9 mm Win Mag brass might be useable.

As much as you might be reducing the diameter I'd suggest annealing the case mouths before forming. Anhydrous Lanolin is what I use as a forming lube. It makes sizing really easy.

[JA]

After reading the books "The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions" and "Wildcat Cartridges".
I concluded that it would be alot of trouble to have to use several smaller size dies to get the 9mm WM brass down to 5.45x39mm size. As the 9mm cases would most likly crush by just running them into the 5.45 die.
The books have several examples of of .30 caliber rifle cases being formed to .22 caliber cases that require 2 or 3 case forming dies to do this after case neck annealing.
Sounds like a lot of trouble to go through to me.

[Schuetzenman]

JA,
Yes, you might need to do it with two dies. Going down to about .22 cal. is a pretty good squeeze.

My experience is taking down the .357 Max case to about .28 caliber. I didn't have any problems after annealing and by using the Lanolin (sheep wool wax).

A second annealing might be required, but you don't know until you try. Also, I used a 3 ton Arbor press to do the case forming. A buddy made a little cylindrical die out of bar stock and used a chamber reamer to cut the die. Then it was hardened and lightly polished.

Work . . . yep, but you don't loose the cases in a single shot rifle. A long way to go for a semi that's going to abuse the cases and toss them all over the place only to get lost.

Well, you can hope for Rem, Win or Starline Brass to tool up and make some brass someday.

[JA]

btt

[Skip]

JA,
How many times was that split case resized? I find this common case split is do to many reloads. It's called case fatigue.

[JA]

The case was a brand new unfired .222 Remington that I ran into the 5.45x39mm full length resizing die and trimmed to length. So there was no chance of case fatigue.
My first attempt at making 5.45 brass using .223 military Lake City ammo fired in a AK rifle resulted in a lot more splits.

[bob]

I rember an old article in handloader magazine were they were turning .223 into 30 mauser back when it was unavailable, and they had a big bulge to one side usualy, from the case streching from the head size out to fit the chamber size, it doesn't suprize me a bit they split on a 5.45, it just probably did all the stretching on one sideof the case instead of half per side.I think I heard military brass is always harder,& my dad always aneals mill. rifle cases first think.
When I was necking down and neck trimming9mmwin mag to 7.62tokarev I did bring a sheet to the range to eject empties on:D :rolleyes: , stinks loosing all that work.

[JA]

The next batch I make up and fire I will save the ones that split. Then cut them in half at the split and see if I can measure the case wall thickness on the split side vs the other side.
My next 5.45 reloading project is to resize some .224" Nosler 60gr partistion bullets and load them in some Russian unfired cases for deer hunting.

[Poodleshooter]

How much weight are you losing when you swage down these .224 bullets?

[JA]

You don't loose any weight when swageing bullets up or down in size. .224" to .221" is only .003". Never measured it but the bullets should get .001" or so longer. Go to your refridgerator and get a hotdog and place it in your palm. Then make a fist and squeeze the hotdog. Notice the hotdog get longer and nothing came out of the hotdog unless you squeezed it too hard, same thing with swageing a bullet to a smaller size. Bumping a bullet up in size will result in shorter bullet.

[Poodleshooter]

Ah! Thanks for the info. I only cast, and have never had to swage bullets before.

[tom1263]

well this is the information I've been searching for. I just got one of the E. German border patrol rifles made by Steyr (SSG82)in the 80's. So far the best ammo I can find is WOLF 545x39.

JA, it sounds like your on to something here. I am a somewhat novice reloader still and don't know if Im ready to attempt this .222 project. When these rifles were inported in the 80's there was a bunch of Brass cased ammo from RWS that came with these rifles. Ever here of this?

Anyway, wondering a few questions.... Would you consider selling any of your reloads once you perfect them? Do you know where to get "ANY" info at all on these E. German Rifles?

tia

Tom

[JA]

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=168111&a=9302049&p=30357737
The ammo in the top of the pic is the Dynamit Nobel RWS ammo that was imported with the SSG-82 rifles. It is steel cased berdan primed 59gr hollow point with RWS-215 headstamp. 50rds per box $26.35 and can be bought from Century Arms
http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.html?target=p_301.html&lang=en-us
As far as info on the rifles goes I have only seen a few magazine articles when they were first imported. Not really any history just reviews of how they functioned.
Email me about some of my reloads.