Steel Core ID Update

[Devil Dog]

I Just had a conversation with a collector associate of mine regarding the dates of manufacture of Chinese Steel core and Lead Core ammunition. His information is that lead core ammunition in 7.62x39 made in China is known as early as 1988 from factory 71 and 1990 from factory 31. I regard this information to be correct as this
person has at least one of every 7.62x39
cartridge ever made! Thus, we are back to using the hacksaw test to determine the type of projectile, if the cartridge is dated 1988 or later with a Chinese headstamp.
Chinese Steel core ammo is known to have made it into this country with headstamp dates as late as 1992 from the 31 and 71 factories. Key points of ID
for these lead core cartridges are green
case mouth seal from 31 and a knurled bullet cannelure and most likely a red primer seal from 71.

Hope this update helps y'all!

D.D.

I pulled the bullet from 1966 Chinese SC and it measures 1.044. The bullet pulled from 351,94 measures .913. There is no need to cut the bullet as the steel core is longer.
Rule of thumb.If bullet is under 1.00 it is lead core. Does this sound right?

[Devil Dog]

This is a good rule of thumb, as the steel core ball bullet is boat tailed and longer than the flat based lead core one. Also, the steel core base is usually visible at the bottom of the bullet. Thus we can safely say that there are now two ways to ID the bullet type, either pull the bullet or cut it in half as was mentioned earlier. I never thought of this second method, but it should work just fine. Thanks!

D.D.

[Adrienne]

What's the easiest way to pull the bullet without the use of reloading equipment? thanks.

There is no easy way without the use of a collet or kenetic puller. If you have access to a reloading press and 7.63x39mm shell holder. Run the press ram up and grab the bullet with lineman's pliers. Then push the handle up while grabing bullet with the cutting part of the pliers jaws.

[Adrienne]

J.A.,
Thanks. My father-in-law reloads, so I guess I'll have him do it. Thanks again.

[saleen]

devildog,

How about some help identifying these rounds. One is chinese with isw51 over 66 on the headstamp. The other is supposed to be russian with a 711 over 93 on the headstamp. Any ideas?

[Devil Dog]

the first one is Chinese, made by factory 51
in 1966 and is steel core ball. the second one is Russian, made by factory 711 in 1993 and is lead core ball or lead core hollow point. Either one will be boat-tailed with a ball powder, as opposed to the earlier tubular kernal type of powder.
Prior to the 1990's factory 711 manufactured primarily tracer and sub-sonic ball cartridges in the USSR.

D.D.

[Devil Dog]

Are you sure the Chinese cartridge is marked "51"? My notes indicate that factory 51 did not produce 7.62x39 cartridges until 1972. Perhaps yours is marked 351? This would fit my information,
as factory 351 began production of this caliber in 1966.

D.D.

[saleen]

I'm not sure, as I do not actually have the ammunition for inspection. I am considering buying it, and wanted to be sure that it was indeed steel core. The descriptions that I gave were provided by the seller, but I can tell you that the Chinese rounds appear to be copper washed with a pink sealer around the neck of the cartridge. I would have included the picture, but I can't figure out how to attach it to this post. I'm something of a newcomer to this technology.


Thanks

[Floyd]

Has anyone done any checks on how effective steel-core, bimetal-jacketed, and copper-jacketed are against steel plate or other armor?

I shot some 3" steel plate at 124 yards and the steel core would leave a 1/4" deep by 3/4" round crater. The steel jacket lead core would just dent it. The soft point would leave a copper/lead greasey spot about 3/4" in diameter.
For comparision shot some .308(7.62x51mm) fmj it gave the same size crater as 7.62x39mm steel core. The 30-06 AP the crater was 1/2" deep.

[56s]

Man I remember buying the good old steel core in the early 90s for $75.00 for two 550 round cans all on stripper clips.
Times have changed.

OUT in Vegas!

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56s-2

[Devil Dog]

Saleen,

Either way, the 1966 dated Chinese ammo will be steel core. I hope you are not paying a whole lot more for it because it is
steel core! The common misconception is that this ammunition is armor piercing. It will
penetrate a bit more than regular lead core ball, but not nearly as much as a true armor piercing round. Your typical law enforcement type body armor will not stop
either a lead core or steel core ball round in 7.62x39. A tactical plate insert will stop both types. So, in reality, there is no gain in having the steel core, as the penetration increase is minimal. Typicly the core will seperate from the jacket material and what you then have is a mild-steel projectile that is .25 caliber and weighs approx. 55 grains.
Not exactly your most lethal of projectiles, considering the significant velocity loss from the act of penetrating what ever the cover is. My experience with the steel core ball cartridge is that 25% of the rounds fired will completely penetrate 3/16" mild steel plate (core only). 50% will show partial penetration, with the core partly sticking through the plate, and the rest of the time, the projectile will leave a big dent in the plate. The same material was tested against .30-06 M2 AP and the projectile core cut through THREE 3/16" plates, spaced 2" apart. All this firing was done at
15 yds. at about 5 degrees off of the perpendicular. I have some Bulgarian steel core ball that I plan to do some more plate testing with some-day. I would really like to
try to get some true 7.62x39 API to compare penetration with. But, at $5-$10 per round from collectors and the scarcity of them, I doubt that will ever happen!
D.D.

[saleen]

Devil Dog,

Thanks for your information. I guess I've always assumed that the steel core stuff was much more efficient in being able to penetrate barricades, automobiles, ect. FYI I'm not too interested in finding ammo to defeat ballistic armor vests. As you pointed out, they are not designed to stop any rifle cartridge anyway. As for the ceramic plates which defeat rifle / AP rounds, they typically only measure 4"x8" directly over the sternum. The rest of the vest is virtually unprotected from rifle ammo. Given the marginal performance advantage of steel core, I think I'll refrain from all the hype. I have been looking at two sources from 21 to 30 cents per round. I think I'll just stick with newer production Russian H.P. for now.

Since I've got your attention, I'd like to ask for your input on the performance of the Russian 122 grain H.P. that came in those 1440 round crates about 1 - 1.5 years ago. Have you done any ballistic testing with these rounds? Are they steel jacketed, and will the steel jacket increase the wear on my bore? Assuming that the ammo is stored in an climate controlled room, how long will the ammo be good for? I initially thought that it would keep for a lifetime, but one outfit out of Bryan Texas (can't remember the company name) stated that they noticed a marked decrease in velocity of surplus ammunition which seemed to become more significant as the age increased. Some of the dates of manufacture that they were talking about was from the early to mid 1980's. Was there some sort of problem with ammunition manufactured 15 years ago which caused it not to maintain it's performance after long term storage, or was this guy lying in order to make a sale? Thanks in advance for any information which you may have. That's the great thing about these boards... if you don't know, you're sure to find someone who does.


Join the NRA, vote pro-gun....every time, and never be afraid to be heard.


Ed

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[This message has been edited by saleen (edited August 06, 1999).]

[Devil Dog]

I have fired quite a bit of the Russian hollow point ammo over the years, and have had good results. It is all steel jacketed, which will not make a noticeable
difference in your barrel life. For one, the barrel is most likely chrome plated, wich is extremely wear resistant. Two, you will have to fire tens of thousands of rounds of ammo to wear out an AK barrel anyways. Three, the AK was designed to shoot steel jacketed ammo, and the copper plating acts as a lubricant of sorts in the barrel as it is fired. I have put 5,000 plus rounds through my Hungarian AKMS in the past dozen years, and it is still just fine, and the chrome plated bore is as shiney and new looking as the day I bought it! Not cleaning a weapon's barrel will do more harm than the steel jacketed ammo, if it allows rust and pitting to form. As for the ammo deteriorating, I think it may be a story to boost sales! I have fired AK ammo dated
1950 thourgh 1996, and every year in between. The worst problem I had was 3 dead primers out of a sealed spam-can of
660 rds of Russian hollow point dated 1993! I have very little faith in ammo dealers because it is a very competitive market and they will do anything to move their product! My USMC unit in Kuwait during the Gulf War captured a ton of 7.62x39 ammo, etc... some of it dated as early as 1959, the rest was 60's, 70's and 80's manufacture from all over the East Bloc and then some. I doubt if this stuff was bad, due to age, it would have been issued to front line troops! Properly stored ammo should have a shelf life of at least
30-40 years, but I would expect by then to have a few misfires at least. Nothing is perfect!

Glad to help!

D.D.