Strange Carcano Varient

[neilwest]

1. I picked up my Galil today and this was sitting in the corner for $60.00. I had to get it. A TERNI 6.5 ALP is stamped on the receiver with the usual cartouches. I thought it might have been a cutdown by some bubba but all the hardware matches like factory made.

2. Someone give me some info on this one if you can.

http://album.gunsnet.net/data/tammywest/90_p4654.jpg

http://album.gunsnet.net/data/tammywest/90_p4653.jpg

[zouavexx]

Beautiful!

[SalBO]

I have to quit reading this BB..........:D

[neilwest]

1. any idea as to weather this is a true varient or not? I cant seem to find one in the carcano databank?

[zouavexx]

It has an German/ Austrian look to it.

Where's HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin when you need him? ;)

[survivor99]

Neil,

That's beautiful. It bears a strong resemblance to the Model 1888 Commission carbine... but the bolt is different, as are the sling swivels. That's the only one of its kind I've ever seen, Neil. Either it's rare or you are playing tricks on us guys... LOL

Beautiful condition!!

survivor99

[smittylite]

Neil, is there a date anywhere on it? Would ALP stand for Alpini? Can you post some pics of the front site assy and from the top?

[neilwest]

1. Thats what I thought. Perhaps a chopped down version for Mountian Troops during it 5 day Austian War in the 30's. It has no Mussilini date like most of this period does. No roman numerals I mean and the date is not to be found. It is a 6.5 Carcano made by Terni and fits the stock perfectly. I would say cut down but the serial on the buttstock match the receiver so unless someone changed the barrel I have no idea what it is.

2. Hey HerrDok were are you?

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Hopefully Alexander can help us with this one. It seems I've heard of some commercial Carcanos, but have never seen one. Based on the rear sight, it looks like a cutdown Model 91, but the front sight is non (military) at least. Does the front sight look newer than the rest of the parts?

[neilwest]

1. No it is part of the original metalwork. The importer show interordnance of Virginia, which Ive not heard of. She is also a painted instead of blued receiver and barrel? The handguard in which the barrel fits is grooved from the mfg to fit. If it was a cutdown it was done professionally as possibly a rearsenal or a conversion for the civilian market. Interesting.

[SalBO]

I am thinking Interordnance of Virginia was in Norfolk/VaBeach or Hampton Rhoads Va.

[zouavexx]

I am no expert but I think its a commercial Carcano with a Mannlicher style stock.

I anxiously await "carcano"s comments on this rifle...

[awp101]

Heheheh, that's almost as cute as the KKW .22 K98 trainers...

[Jericho]

Originally posted by SalBO
I have to quit reading this BB..........:D

I am starting to think I do too... Neil is killing me with these finds :eek: :bye:

[survivor99]

I can name several who are killing us with such great finds! LOL

But look at the wealth of knowledge we are all gaining by these great guns and fabulous pics. There were several carbines that had that type stock. The 1888 Commission Mauser CARBINE, not rifle, then the Mannlicher-Schoenauer (which had double triggers), and wasn't there an Argentine Mauser with that type stock? I think we'll get a Pick of the Week out of Neil over it.......

survivor99

[Skip]

Nope. I have this old book titled Great Weapons of WWII. Every major combatant has something listed except for the Italians.

[carcano]

Dear Neil,

many thanks for the two fine and clear pictures. The given "Stutzen" variant of a Carcano sporter is indeed beautiful. It is definitely a cut-down Model 91 long rifle, which also had its bolt handle bent. The middle barrel band is either a Model 91/41 band or an aftermarket addition, since its seems to have a second side bar, in addition to the downward swivel. And of course, the muzzle piece and the front sight are not original either, as the picture shows.

This sporter is a civilian custom project, made by someone with good taste (probably a professional or a really talented amateur). It is probably *not* one of the Austrian OEWG sporter variants from the 1920s, because those used rather different stocks and sights, and frequently a double set trigger. The accuracy of your nice gun however may have been affected, because the shortening of the barrel negatively influences the twist rate (reducing the gain twist). I would be quite interested to hear how it shoots with Prvi Partizan ammo on one hand, and with the new Hornady .268" bullets on the other.

Best regards,
Alexander Eichener
carcano91@hotmail.com

[carcano]

Oopps - one necessary warning as an afterhought:

First, carefully check whether this gun has possibly been rechambered (id est, re-reamed) to 6,5 x 54 MS !! This seems very possible in the given case. If a 6,5 x 54 MS round chambers without much effort, the headspace would be excessive for the original Carcano cartridge, leading to pierced primers or worse effects.

Regards,
Alexander Eichener
carcano91@hotmail.com

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Neil - any closeups of the ALP stamp, front barrel band, muzzle crown, and front sight would be beneficial.

Also, are you sure it says Interordnance, or does it say Interarms? Interarms is an old importer from Alexandria, Virginia.

[neilwest]

1. Yes it was interarms not interordnance.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

OK, I believe they are still in business. They used to import higher end European military rifles converted to sporters, and did a bunch of sporterizing conversions of 1909 Argentinian Mausers, and I believe Spanish Mausers (I used to own a 1909 sporterized Argentian Mauser of theirs that I bought at Sears in 1974).

If you can, take a hardcopy picture of it, and send it to them, asking them if they recall what it was they were selling. Here is some contact info for them (all I was able to find on the internet):

Telephone number: (703) 548-1400

FAX (703) 549-7826.

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Thanks Alexander! Wish you would stop by more often!

[carcano]

Dear Doktor,

I'll try to look in now and then :-). As to the Carcano sporter, Doc AV has just added a very helpful answer in the Italian section of this board.

Concerning Interarmco or Interarms of Sam Cummings' fame: yes, they used to be located in Alexandria, on the waterfront. I know the premises in Alexandria's nice marina district, in fact I happened to visit it on the very morning of September 11th, 2001. I saw a faint whiff of brown smoke at the horizon (Pentagon direction), and the flock of people heading at the piers, looking out and speaking into cellphones indicated that "something" was going on.

However, the charming and a little bit run-down location is now operated by "Potomac Arms", a medium-size old-fashioned retail and surplus store. Interarms is no more. Potomac Arms has few surplus firearms, few bayonets, and some ammo (including one or two boxes of 7,35mm Carcano, and a box of old Fiocchi 10,4 Italian revolver ammo... also a crate of Austrian-made .30-06 surplus cartridges from 1956).

Best regards,
Alexander

[HerrdoktorSchuetzengruvin]

Thanks, Alexander, for all the wealth of info.

I wish you could moderate the Italian Forum!