What to do with empty magazines while shooting on the move?

[KYoon]

Here's the problem: in action shooting type competitions where you'll be shooting on the move, I've always wondered what to do with the empty magazines. In some competitions that I can think of, you lose points if you just drop your magazines. So, how do you store them out of the way without getting it confused with loaded magazines.
In the heat of competition, sometimes you just don't notice that you just picked up an empty or a partially filled magazine. So, how do you suggest storing them out of the way and not mixing it up with your filled magazines?
One thing that I thought of was to carry an old surplus shoulder bag and just dumping them in there. Are there alternative solutions?

[CODE((10))]

Well there are several possibilities:
*old surplus shoulder bag
*nets (army helmet camo attaching net)
*tactical vest with packets for mags
*surplus army jacket/trousers with pockets

I would opt for the last method...
If you have emptied your AK magazine (preferably marked by the last 2 rounds in the magazine that are tracer ammo), you should get your full mag out of the pocket, be able to exchange with one hand /free left hand (yes, this manipulation requires a lot of practice in various positions) and then put away the empty mag in your trouser side pockets without closing the flap. charge the rifle with your free hand again and you are on the way.....in real firefights depending on the situation and your ammo supply, you would rather change mags, drop the empty mag in front of your position (preferrably onto some textile : beret/cap/pack), charge and ....*IF you have time and expect movement from your position take the empty mag into your pouch.

Real firefights rather than combat shooting competions will not require too fast movements....all folks you and enemy as well will head for cover and take aim at the enemy. The guy who tries to do some jumping and shooting and moving is likely the one who was too supid to find cover and is the first that will be hit...and transported later in a body bag

CODE((10))

[T.Messenger]

I've found that most of the army surplus stores
carry a good selection of AK-47 clip bags. I've
even found a really cool East German leather belt
that held multiple 30rnd clips. Price ranges from
$4.95 to $9.95.

[Heavy Metal]

Claymoore Bags are the best! An old 11B trick. The problem with putting them in BDU trouser pockets is: 1) You will land on them and you can crush an M-16 mag this way. You could ram the locking tab on an ak mag into your thigh. 2) when you are running like a bat out of hell in full LBE, anything slightly loose will fall off. You would not believe how many canteens, mags, flashlights, ponchos, etc.... I used to find at the training site in the bush after the games were over. If you have time secure it!.....unless you have unlimited resupply. H.M.

[ponyboy]

If in a competition where you must retain your mags I agree that claymore bags are the best, I use them to store my AR mags in. But if in a real shoot and run situation where people are shooting back who cares what happens to them? I have heard stories of police officers being shot while reloading their gun (revolvers) because they had been trained to pick up their brass and while in the middle of a shootout they took the time to put the used brass in their pockets. The reason they did it is because that is how they had trained, and in a high stress situation you will perform like you have been training without really thinking about it. I have been asked several times why I will drop my hi-cap glock mags on the ground and risk damaging them instead of putting them in my pocket or mag holder like the other shooters, the answer is because my mags are expendible, my life isnt. I still protest in IDPA shoots where the course of fire sipulates I must retain spent mags.

[Tomac]

OK, I'm sold, where can a get a claymore bag or two???....
Tomac

[ponyboy]

I just found a new use for them this morning...dove hunting. They come in real handy cause you can fit all kinds of stuff in them. Im going to get a few more for myself if I can find them. The guy I got them from last time was Charles Rupe. His email address is wu52@aol.com. I already sent him an email and Ill let you guys know if he has any and you can make an order with him. I dont remember exactly what the price was, but they werent that much, he's really fair on all of his prices.

Tomac got a catalog from Gold Nugget army surplus 1-800-942-8769 claymore mine bag used ex #BP058 $5.95

[SCOUT]

KYoon, you should buy a book titled

"The Fighting Rifle" by Chuck Taylor.

It will show you how to employ the

EMPTY MAGAZINE BAG. An EXCELLENT book!

[Bryant]

Carry a military issue laundry bag around your neck and stuff them inside while on the run, never just drop them unless you know you can beat the opponent and get a chance to pick them up later. You should be able to carry 635 rounds in access while in combat, 16 thirty round mags on rain pattern camo holders, one 75 round drum and two 40 round mags attached by clips in the gun. Get used to engaging multiple targets without much more than quick aiming and much spraying. Catco has the video along with the template and K-Var has the parts.

[ramius]

In combat I'd just throw the empty mags at the enemy. They weigh enough to do some damage. (I'm just kidding!)

The thing about the AK is that to release the mag, you've got to grip it. Not like the AR where you can just drop it. The AK is a lot like the M14 in that way. Just activating the mag release doesn't help.

I also take into account that if I'm fighting from a static position (a hole/ambush) then I'm not really as worried about empty mags, since I'm not going to be moving. Besides which I've got full mags within easy reach already.

If I'm not static, what I do is take the empty mag out and put it behind my suspender (if vertical) or in front of me (if horizontal). Then I pull the full and get the weapon charged up.

I put the empty in the mag pouch feed-side down. I don't carry an extra bag, although I can see its merit. If I'm in a BIG hurry, I either dump it down the front of my blouse or leave it. And no, I don't wear a chest pouch.

The only time I wore a chest pouch, I went prone and (a) I stabbed myself with the corners of each and every mag on my chest, and (b) I felt a lot higher than I wanted to feel. Just personal preference.

I'm going to try the empty bag route and see if it helps. And if anyone else has some thoughts, I'd love to hear them.



------------------
-ramius...
right wing extremist gun nut
...and proud of it.

[LAgunman2K-3]

heres 2 ideas---wear a vest that has a large open pocket in the back like what bird hunters wear when hunting it gives them a place to store there birds OR get a gas mask bag that straps on your leg and toss them in there they also have a fold over velcro flap and a shoulder strap

[Floyd]

Anybody try the five-fifty cord loop trick on the end of an AK magazine? It works on the M16 magazines. It makes it easier to pull out of the carrier and you could let the empty magazine dangle from your support hand until you have time to put it away...

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Join the NRA!!!

[jack torrance]

if wearing 782 gear throw the mags in your cammy blouse. the canteen belt will keep them from falling out.

[Tread Head]

I had the same problem with all my guns. what to do with the empties??? I took matters into my own hands and my brother and I designed a heavy gauge nylon bag with an elastisized opening and loop. Put this on your gear and you can dump mags in it and not on the ground. We affectionately call it our 'Dump Bag"

Tread Head

[Bravo32]

Here's what I do:
I use an empty GI gasmask bag to stuff my empty magazines in. I like the kind that holds the M-25 tanker masks best ( I'm an old treadhead), but the kind for the M-17 mask will work just as well. It has two straps that let you suspend it over your shoulder or waist and secure it around your waist (or leg) to keep it from flopping around. Just make sure you wear it with the flap facing UP, so your mags don't fall out as you run. The gasmask bag is deep enough to keep the empties in as you move and the straps let you wear it so you don't fall down on it every time you hit the dirt. its also got two big heavy duty snaps that won't get bent easily and are easy to rip open. Cost is about $12-15 for a brandy new cordura nylon bag from a surplus joint.

[pasamson]

Been seeing pouches recently that are positioned like a tactical holster i.e. tied low on the leg. Velco flap on top. Haven't tried it yet but seems like it might work well.

[USMCE4T]

OORAH Hardcorps,

There seem to be a few Jar Heads in this forum. I was an 0341 and cross trained as 0331. I agree, put the mags in your cammie blouse. Or if your taking fire and in the prone, stick the empty in your trouser cargo pocket.

[Chris C]

i dunno about competition shooting,
but in real combat i'd suggest saving
atleast some of the empty mags for reloading
later. can't rely on the enemy's dead/wounded to resupply your troops.

as for carrying those empty clips...
plenty of ways that work. best to get yourself a roomy bag/pack that you can keep
accessable without it getting in the way.

some of those open-top hip bags that trapshooters use to store their shotshells
might be a wise investment.

Chris

[hardcorps1775]

Jack Torrance, you must have been an 0311! That's the fastest and safest way to store your mags, fellas. Dump them down your blouse and as long as you're wearing deuce gear, like JT said, the mags will be secure and you can fish them out after the fun. The benifit to this as opposed to bags is you don't have something flopping around, swinging from side to side and throwing you off balance.

[mrak1289x]

A nice butt pack works just fine. You can get them at any surplus store. Sportsman Guide, Ranger Joe, and other surplus magazines carry them.

[Lisl Auman]

It depends:

qualifiers:
1. AK folks here will be on the move rather than static.
2. They'll be outnumbered, due to the uglyness and unpc-ness of the gun. (thus shoot and scoot applies)
3. They can't afford (armed) friends. If their friends could afford such arms, they'd have ARs (RBFG)

I'll take the non-game approach:

As the initial contact is very critical,
drop your first empty mag. (Unless prints on and in it would be a problem).

Anything after that, hopefully you have bought enough time to jam them back where they came from.

As for placement, I prefer placing them top down in the compartment. They are less suseptible to fouling that way. Also, I place them bullets facing out from the body in case some dork shoots one of my mags and I get a boom, it's away from my body (the explosion is behind the bullet).

At your cache (ground, vehicle, house, etc) you should always have extra mags with your extra rounds. And don't forget the stripper clips.

[LAgunman2K-3]

heres another idea that might be kinda strange and difficult to manage but ill tell ya anyway --my dad has a like a photo/explorer type vest and on the back is a long pouch that goes from the top to the bottom of the vest, i guess its for holding a spotting scope or a rolled up map, i guess its about 6 inches wide and 1 foot or more long, you could MAYBE toss your emtpy mags over your shoulder into a pouch like this and they would be out of the way
unless you had to sit in a seat, then very uncomfortable
so what ya think? yes or no

------------------
and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

[dadduck]

During real shooting, I can attest, your mags will be found where you last emptied them. Your bowels will probably move-both of them- and you will not even hear the shooting and as you try to aim you will have tunnel vision. You will know fear but it won't matter just don't let it get you killed. Forget agressive attacks unless you are with your tactical squad, who you trust, and try to find some real cover to fire from.All you will see is the flashing end of a rifle barrel just aim for that. Dadduck

[grenadier]

I saw some interesting footage on the news years ago. It was from the middle east, and it featured three palestinian policemen firing AK's at unknown assailants. They were really pouring it on, and one of them performed a mag change. This is the interesting(to me, anyway) part. He used the web of his left hand to sweep the mag out of the rifle and then quickly( REALLY quickly!) inserted a fresh mag, charged, and blazed away. I would estimate the whole operation took about four seconds at the very most. Just goes to show you, PRACTICE makes perfect!
Incidentally, He didn't seem too worried about where his empty mags ended up, or whether they got dirty for that matter. The thing that impressed me was the speed and sureness of the maneuver. I tried this trick once or twice with my rifle held over the bed and the mags ended up just under and infront of the rifle, not too far away to be scooped up in a hurry. I have one damaged mag that I will use to practice in different positions, just to see how versatile the technique is.

[grenadier]

This is just an idea, but if retaining empties is an issue, but noise is not, why not get a web belt and fasten several snap hooks to it? Then you could put the aforementioned cord loops in the mags an simply snap the mags onto your belt as you empty them. They'll rattle around a good deal, but if you don't have to go prone it won't be a big deal in sport shooting scenarios. I would never do this in a SHTF scenario, but it might work for competition, though...

[Heavy Trigger]

I must agree with dadduck.

I was in a real shootout once and severly out-gunned.

We were almost in panick mode, it's very hard to stay calm when steel and lead are flying everywhere!
I pissed my pants, so did two of the other three people there.

We left all kinds of stuff in the woods and did not realize where we were at even though we had been there many times. It sucked.

My advice, MAKE SURE you have your strap around your neck so your weapon stays with you. You may think you would handle it better than I but you are most likely watching too many movies.

As far as mags go, if you can stay calm enough to put them in a bag while the dirt is kicking up around you and tree bark is flying, you have a cooler head than me and I think you'll only end up dead.

Instead of thinking about mags, you will/should be thinking about moving your butt as fast as possible. If you can come back later fine, if not fine. At least you wont die trying to recover an $8 magazine.

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Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom?!

Pro Libertate - For Freedom

[Ranger]

Oh, never mind. If TSHTF you will figure it out. I myself stored them in my blouse, my TLBE kept them from falling out. I would think that in a non-military equipped fire-fight, it is important to retain youre supplies espically mags; hard to replace in a revoulationary war scenario. As far as competition get a "dump bag" of your choice.
Ranger out.

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What part of "Shall not be infringed" dont you understand!! http://forum.arstechnica.com/forum/ubb/smileyshot2.gif

[This message has been edited by Ranger (edited 02-15-2000).]

[Heavy Trigger]

I CANNOT speak of the situation as the SHTF as soon as I do.

Sorry!

------------------
Attend THE Patriot War College!
http://www.colddeadhands.addr.com

Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom?!

Pro Libertate - For Freedom

[Average Man]

instead of throwing those old BDU's out here is something to keep you busy..
Cut off an old pant leg, sew one end closed, then put elastic in the other end. If the elastic is right mags go in, but dont slip back out. Attach a clip, loop or sholder strap and you are in buisness.
With a little a little wotk you can hang it off the left side of your LBE or make the sholder strap to hang at waist leval. on your weak side.

[Average Man]

Cosair;
Moriarity why always wit da negative thinking??
I see your point, and to a degree I must agree with you. I would like to submitt to you that tactics make all of the diffrence and you must broaden your thinking.
ala the Viet Cong against the US, the Mujahadeen against the Russians and more recently the Chechnians against the Russians.
Resupply is a tough tough nut to crack and yet too much resupply makes an inviting and long tail to be pulled at every opportunity.
All of these Armies resupplied however possible adapted and overcame. Americans are generally pretty versitile and once you begin to think outside the "box" you would be amazed at what you can do.
Dont think that you arent a threat because you dont have three hot meals a day and all the mags you can drop.

[MarFor]

Retaining your magazine in your cammie blouse is the the easiest way to do it if you have 782 gear on. However it is easier to just use your cargo pockets if you are in the prone position or if you have the newer tac-vests that are issued.

[possumtrapper]

my battle tactic is a vest with wide mouthed deep pockets with super strong magnets attached to the vest allowing in my case 10 5 round mags to be carried externally on the vest the tactic is to fire 4 rounds eject mag chuck it in the large pocket while grabbing a mag on the outside of the vest for feeding into the gun time for mag change (from the time the mag catch is pressed to the time your ready to empty it) is 1.8 seconds vs the 3-6 seconds it was taking with putting them in & out of pockets

[madmailman]

Maxpedition RolyPoly (http://www.maxpedition.com/product/product_rollypoly.htm)

Dump Pouch!! Cheap, easy to use, keeps the mags with you, and even rolls out of the way when not in use!!
http://www.maxpedition.com/product/pouch/0208_rp/0208_04s.gif
http://www.maxpedition.com/product/pouch/0208_rp/0208_07s.gif