Win M94 .30-30 Vs. SKS

[AR15fan]

Just for fun, Debate the merits of the Winchester Model 94 .30-30 rifle with a 20" barrel versus the SKS 7.62x39mm as a general purpose survival/utility rifle.

Some FACTS to start you off:

Ballistics:
.30-30 150GN MV2390FPS ME1902FtLbs
7.62X39mm 123Gn MV2365 ME1527FtLbs

Capacity (standard):
SKS 10 rounds
M94 7 rounds

Cost:
M94 Approx $300.00
SKS Approx $200.00

My opinion:
The M94 is more powerful, more accurate, lighter, shorter, thinner , has a non threatening appearance and offers the abilty to top off the magazine during short lulls in the action. The M94's only faults as compared to the SKS is its slightly slower rate of fire, which is only realized in supresive fire but a moot point in aimed fire, SKS' faster reloads, and slightly lower cost.


[This message has been edited by AR15fan (edited 05-14-2000).]

[HDR]

Drue, I dremeled a few different 7.62x39's. Very small "hollowpoint" cavity. Many, not all, of them are a thin copper flash over about 1mm of steel, then a lead core. Take a knife and scratch that copper..

Actually I like my 336C in 35 Rem. But you said I could make due with either.

http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif I am not as sure as many seem to be that only a 7.62x39 is deadly.. http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif!!

[Drue]

I would choose the .30-30 for hunting since it is a little more powerful. I would choose the SKS for fighting because of the firepower. As you say, the SKS can be reloaded more quickly with stripper clips but the ability to thumb a round or two into the 94's mag during a lull would be handy to have.

.30-30 ammo is widely available with good soft point bullets. The hollow point 7.62x39 is really FMJ with a very small hole drilled into the tip so it can be called "sporting ammo." It does not expand at all. If you want good hunting ammo you would have to roll your own. A lot of people have reported good results by simply pulling the issue FMJ or "HP" bullets on the cheap, berdan, steel cased ammo and replacing it with a Hornady 123gr JSP.

I could make do with either.

Drue

[Section-8]

Well, you really can't rapid fire the 30-30 but that SKS really rocks if you've ever rapid fired one before.

30-30 vs. 7.62x39? 30-30 is a real bad ass and so is 7.62, if you hit them in the right spot it doesn't matter but 30-30 will probably make you bleed more. (bleeding is bad in case you didn't know http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/wink.gif)


You can reload the SKS much faster IMHO.

As for me? I am much more familer with the SKS than the lever action BTW i think the lever action is primative like a shotgun or revolver.

My dad's Norinco SKS Para will do a 3inch group at 100 yards useing Russian HP so the accuracy is good enough for any engagement that the cartridge can handle.

oh yeah, as far as capasity the SKS Para takes AK mags

That's all for now, i'll probably think up something later.

[This message has been edited by Section-8 (edited 06-05-2000).]

[HDR]

Section-8,
True. All depends on the need and the useage.
Hunting? My .35 Rem or 30-06 pump gun, that is if I hunted.
Just hiking thru the woods? An AK, lightweight and nasty.
Busting targets LDO? 7mm Rem or the .300 Win.
Tactical? One of the AW's, either an AK or a FN.
So many choices.



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Sit-Rep negative

Christian, American, Hetrosexual, VietNam Vet, Pro-Military, Pro Gun and Conservative..
Any questions?

[Packrat]

I haven't calculated it, but someone posted that, because of the blunt bullet of the .30-30, the M43 round actually has more energy beyond about 80 yds. If you use soft point in the 7.62x39 you would have a good hunting round.

I think the .35 Rem puts you in a whole new category, especially if you are working at short range.

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Packrat

[sgtstinger]

SKS all the way! Designed as a battle rifle from the get-go.

BTW-Wouldn't it be kinda hard to work that lever action in a tight spot or especially the prone position?...I rest my case.

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HK's G3 Assault Rifle...Taking Out The 'Trash' World-Wide Since 1959...

SIG-Sauer Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry!!!

[AR15fan]

Note the question was general purpose survival/utility rifle. Combat would only be one of and the least likely of all uses.
As to cycling the lever in the prone. The lever throw is only a few inches, and you can always cant the rifle to the side like when reloading a magazine fed rifle in the prone.

[This message has been edited by AR15fan (edited 06-08-2000).]

[sgtstinger]

I'd still rather have the SKS...

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HK's G3 Assault Rifle...Taking Out The 'Trash' World-Wide Since 1959...

SIG-Sauer Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry!!!

[FriscoPete]

The SKS! Although the 30-30 might have a slight ballistics edge, it is not enough to make a difference. Yes the lever gun feels better because it is slimmer, that feel is of no actual advantage in the field. Good ammo for hunting is available for either. But the rifle itself is just as handy, just as reliable, just as accurate much quicker to reload via stripper clips, has much less recoil, is quicker on follow-up shots - either in hunting or combat because it does not require manual manipulation for a follow-up shot - here let me explain; it is very difficult for most people to work the lever with the gun still at the shoulder and the sights returning to target, more so than a bolt, and especially more so than a semi. Less recoil helps here too. It is also more foolproof for shooters with either "buck fever" or it's equilivant in combat.
Let me illustrate this with a family story: I have seen my uncle work the lever and empty all the cartridges in his Win. Model 94 out on the ground, while IN HIS MIND he was pulling the trigger and shooting at a deer! After he quizzed my dad about his missing a sure shot, my dad suggested he pick up his loaded cartridges off the ground! He was definitely red in the face and humble, and we got a story to tease him about for years!
The SKS was intended for primitive conscript peasants to be used in the roughest conditions imaginable, and to be field-stripped by the same.
Whether or not the SKS is "more threatening looking" depends on how you outfit the SKS, but I think it is a non-issue in the long run.
Oh, and about those Russian hollow-points, I have blown big gaping holes in a lot of jackrabbits. It is the only cartridge with which I have blown one into 2 pieces (complete with a spectacular aerial display and the obligatory red mist). They blow varmints up every bit as good as the .223 with soft or HP's. They give more erratic performance though.
In summary, although the 30-30 lever might have a slight edge as hunting round, it has no clear-cut advantage there, while the SKS is a much better combat rifle and can double virtually as well as a hunter. No army has ever equipped itself with the 30-30 or the lever-action rifle, yet the SKS has been combat proven in battle all over the globe for 56 years. I think even the Sioux would have picked the SKS over their Winchesters and Henrys at Custers Last Stand! I know Custer would have!

[Don S]

Some time ago, Jeff Cooper conducted a test of the AK-47 vs .30-30: which could hit three targets in the shortest time. It was conducted at various distances, with different operators. They tied at 10 yards (2.00 seconds for AK, 2.01 for 30-30) , and the .30-30 did better at greater distances.

I suspect that the test was set up so the AKs safety had to be disengaged. I suspect that it would have won at 10 yards except for the clumsy safety design.

[Comrade Andrei]

The SKS is a much better surviaval/utility rifle! True the m94 has some points (none of which really make it better, just different) but the SKS is the mac daddy of the survial gun genre. The non-threatening bullshit has really got me pissed! Is anyone in their right mind going to give up even the smallest advantage (which may save one's life) to win some "non-threatening" points? I would hope not.

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"Liberal institutions straight way cease from being liberal the moment they are
soundly established: once this is attained no more grevious and more
thourough enemies of freedom exist than liberal institutions." Friedrich Nietzsche
SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTUM

[Shadow Walker]

I checked into re-loading the 7.62 x 39mm, and then compared it to the 30-30 Win.

Reloading manual listed same powder and amount for 7.62 x 39 and 30-30. Also listed same projectile for each.

To me that says they have the same power!

Therefore the SKS (and AK) are both sporting rifles for hunting deer.

The AK just looks like you are declaring war on the deer.

[Lisl Auman]

This is an easy one for me.

Marlin 30-30. It would look real nice on one of my horses... http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif

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"Defy any authority that violates your conscience."

[farranger]

:rolleyes: Several thoughts, ammo availability, probably would favor 30-30, ease of carry, 30-30, durability, definitely sks, I agree with Lisl, Marlin is much better, but if your butt is on the line I believe you're better served with the engineering that goes into a military rifle, so sks. Ammo availability might shift depending on where you were and who was in your country so you had to be doing the survivalist thing. My personal preference marlin 30-30, if life/survival on the line I take the sks and let the wife have the 30-30. :D

[Angry white male]

You forgot to mention the price of the ammo. In my neck of the woods 7.62 goes for less than $3 a box of 20 rnds compared to 30-30 at $10 for 20 rnds.

[J.M.SACULLA]

i would choose the sks because it recoils less than the .30-30win.fast follow up shots are important in survival and hunting situations.

[Messiah]

Originally posted by FriscoPete
No army has ever equipped itself with the 30-30 or the lever-action rifle, yet the SKS has been combat proven in battle all over the globe for 56 years. I think even the Sioux would have picked the SKS over their Winchesters and Henrys at Custers Last Stand! I know Custer would have!

Is that so? Weren't both sides at Little Big Horn armed (at least partically) with .30-30 Winchesters?

Also, didn't the Turks rout the Russians in some battle circa late 19th/early 20th century (the name of which escapes me right now) that lead to the whole furor over the development of the repeating rifle?

[RPG]

M43 over 30-30. Look at the rounds, 30-30's hold a little more powder but flat nosed bullets don't fly like pointy ones. Tubular magazine requires flat nosed bullets so they all wouldn't light each other up at recoil. I've been going through some 30 yr. old American Rifleman magazines and am learning things. After the cowboy rifle, Winchester made an american musket in lever action with a top loading magazine allowing pointy bullets.

[Shadow Walker]

The Russians equipped part of their army during WWI with lever action rifles using a vertical magazine. The rifles were made by Remington, I believe.

These were also the strongest lever action rifles made.

[RogerL]

There wasn't any 30-30 at the little big horn battle. The winchester 94 is the first rifle camber in the 30-30, it came out in 1894 or 1895. the battle of little big horn was in July 1876. The troopers mostly used 45-70 springfield carbines and the Indians used henry and winchester rifles in 44wcf, 45 colt and other strong pistol calibers(38-40)
Now, for the 30-30 vs 7.62-39. the ammo is just about the same power range. the sks vs the winchester 94 or the marlin 336. I would use the sks due to simpleness of the rifle. I have a marlin 336 and its a great rifle but I'm more used to semi-auto/auto then lever action rifle in high stress times.
Roger

[bob]

On one hand did you ever see some one forget to pump a shotgun at a 3 gun match?:eek:I have. :D Same with the guy jacking the rounds on the ground and forgetting to pull the trigger.
On the other hand seen same thing w/ fogetting safties.
and don't forget-CHUCK CONNORS THE RIFLEMAN:D at the begining of the show with the stacato gunfire?Okay,okay they did use a screw in the front of the triggerguard to fire it on closing the lever, but it coud happen!Any one make tube loaders for a 30-30 like they do for shotguns so you can slide a button down a slot in the tube to push a mag full into the loading gate,-zing! just carry a pouch full of the loaded tubes with a cap to flick off w/ your thumb, set against a tab screwed infront of the gateshove the mag full.I've heard of guys using a gravity feed tube full of shells to reload a single action revolver.

[Mr45]

Ok, let me throw a wrench in things :D

How about a Browning BLR (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/blr/blr.htm)? A lever action, magazine fed .308 caliber rifle. You can also get them in .30-.06 and 300 WINMAG :D :D :D

[Sixgun357]

What about the cleaning kit that is in the stock of the SKS along with the rod close at hand. A dirty rifle may not want work all the time. Just my 2 cents.



Six

[bob]

As far as ammo cost and pointy bullets, 30-30 soft points would beat the heck out of m43 fmj or import "holowpoints" for stopping power by a long shot, and what's a long shot for either gun with iron sights?m43 has more velocity than 30-30 after 150 yards I've heard(not sure how far the 30-30 soft points will mushroom), but under that the 30-30 has a BIG edge on stopping power over the import m43 ammo most have sitting around for AK's or SKS's.
Just currious,how manny of you survivalist guys have softpoint or real domestic hollow point ammo for your shtf gun?

[Dino]

Cor-Bon, 125 grn, TNT hollowpoint,
Winchester, 123 grn super-x softpoint,
there is some great domestic 7.62x39 out there,
and some of the imports aren't that bad either.

[bob]

That's cool, Do you know prices off hand, and which import stuf exands well?

[Schuetzenman]

Mr45,
I've shot a friends BLR in .308. It was about 1.5 MOA capable but it kicked like a Mule! Man it just flat out stomped on you cause its so light weight relative to the power of the round.

Talk about slow follow up shots, this is one of the worst I can think of with respect ot this subject.

[bob]

There's another thing, there are lots of muzle brakes available for an SKS,for faster folowup shots,but I supose you could fit one to a lever gun too.Haha, with a lever action, you could put a bayonet on too,Haven't figured out a folding stock though. ;)Pluss you can get the large loop wrangler model, and swing it around to cock it,Intimidation factor!If I could find a cheap pump action in this caliber range, you gota believe I'd have a folding stock,flash hidder& bayo on it by now!:D

[moa]

I'll take a 50BMG M2 anyday! :D :duece:

[moa]

30-30 Winchesters at the Little Bighorn? HA HA HA HA HA :D Sorry but have to give you a hard time on that one!

Model 94 came out in 1894
30-30 came out in 1895

[Messiah]

Originally posted by moa
30-30 Winchesters at the Little Bighorn? HA HA HA HA HA :D Sorry but have to give you a hard time on that one!

Model 94 came out in 1894
30-30 came out in 1895

Okay, okay, so I showed my ignorance on the subject.

Someone already mentioned some of the weapons used at LBH, but I don't recognize any of them. Were any of them repeaters?

[bob]

The government 45-70 trap door springfeild was a single shot converted from a muzzleloader musket, they cut out the breach area and put a hinged top cover/breach block on it so think you fliped a catch& fliped up the trapdoor (don't know if that ejected the cartridge but I think so) and pushed another round in and closed it to fire again,Henry's were brass framed lever actions(presented to the military in the civil war, but top brass were afraid the soldiers would blase off all their ammo in the enemies genral direction when they heard them comming, and be out when they got in range.)and winchester "yellow boy"brass frame lever actions(Not sure what year they came out) were very popular with Indians in the west,though they both were limited to pistol power ammo from the brass frames.Assualt riffles of the day? Never owned any of those 3, just read about them.

[10 X]

The Indians had the edge because of the faster rate of fire compared to the trapdoor. Heck if they could have had the Gatling Gun they would have.

Having said that brings us up to date now. If given a choice of the two rifles SKS or Lever Action 30-30 I would choose the SKS. Rate of fire is without question my first concern. The 7.62x39 has a prooven track record and I have already killed 6 whitetails with it.

But what no one here has mentioned, if you got pinned down while hunting by one of these radical "Enviro Types" that think they are deffending their relatives.... Yep, they are now printing in the 3rd grade coloring books that the animals are our relatives.... and all this Mother Earth crap. But I sure would not want to be caught out against a Envro extreamist without proper firepower..... :ar15: :stand:

[WARPEE]

Sounds like wer'e floggin' a dead horse here! The SKS wins without a doubt! I cite cost, reliablity, ergonomics, ballistics, etc. I talked to a guy who used to instruct at Gunsite and you're correct on the use of the safety! Besides, we all know what the Col. is about....He hates everything Com-Bloc...

[Dan7588]

I learned to shoot with a pre 64 model 94 and my Dad has one from the mid 70's, I can shoot VERY tight groups with open sights at 100 to 150 yds. The model 94 is a predictable shooter in wind and I have yet to have a jam or misfiire that couldn't be cleared with the reliable lever action. Both guns are fantastic from 250 yds in, but the reliability of the 94 cannot be matched by the SKS. Conversly the SKS allows options to the user to make it "their" gun, a buddy has one in sniper dress and he is super accurate beyond 500 yds!!! I would have a better chance with my 7 iron than my model 94 at that range.

[Flinter]

If it were strictly survival......no combat........I'll take my smokepole flinter anyday!! I can back this up so don't die laughing yet!!! In the context you are talking about though I think your are nuts if you pick a "thuddy thuddy" over a sks!!! Let me explain.....the ballistics may look the same right out of the barrel but that's where it stops. Flat point bullets have nasty habit of slowing down fast. True you still have the added weight of a 30-30 to keep the kinetic energy but the first rule of shooting is you can't kill what you can't hit!! I'll challenge anyone to hit a pie plate with a thirty thirty, with a field rest at 400 yds.......I'll bet you I can "walk" it in with my SKS in 3 shots. Those little graduated sites come in mighty handy. Anything under 200 yds and I'd say they are prob fairly even for hunting purposes. BTW.......if you were in a survival situation neither would be a good choice. 90% of what you would be eating would come from small game and plants. I'd take a fishing pole and a few snares over either gun if it were strictly survival.

[Dan7588]

I will take you up on the "pie plate" at 400 yds...However I don't see what this would prove unless you were under attack by a rouge band of bakers. I think it comes down to use, if you are hunting deer take the mod. 94. If you have the uneasy feeling that deer are stalking you and planning an attack, defend yourself with the SKS...and remember, don't fire until you see the whites of their tails!

[Mac_Muz]

Good grief! What Flinter have you got that shoots clean to 400 yards?
I can hit 12"targets with my flinter at only 100 yards with any consistantcy, and then I gotta wonder what kind of energy is left.
(.62 Northwest Gun smoothie cica 1836)

I don't have a sks, but do have a SAR 1 in 7.62x39 and a Winchester in 30/30.

In thick woods as I have here I think for hunting the 30/30 is best. But it has the disadvantage of jacking the lever for each and every shell when unloading it, instead of just one after the mag is dropped from the SAR 1.

I have not had the SAR 1 long enough to tell if these pointed bullets will deflect upon hitting twiggs as some types of bullets do.
Perhaps some of you know?

All things being equal though, at this point in dire need I would take the SAR 1 for a fight, and the .62 for any other hunting needs. If I could have only 1 gun, the flinter would provide more common everyday needs, being that it can shoot shot and ball, and that it can start fire with no powda what ever. In a real pinch it can even be used to pump water from a small pool say in a remote crevice in the rocks here...albeit I ain't neva had too...

LOOK!!!!!!! it's an Eagle! LOL Mac_Muz

[Flinter]

Sorry Mac......never meant to imply I could pull off a 400 yard shot with my flintlock......200yds yes, but not 400. I'm assuming yours is a smoothbore? You forgot to mention the greatest survival aspect of a smokepole, I can shoot a deer and if the balls still in it, melt the ball back down and make another bullet. I can also adjust the amount of powder I'm firing to match range/game. That having been said, I still dont' see ANY advantages to a model 94 over an SKS. An SKS will do anything that a '94 will do, but the SKS has advantages if it comes to a fight.........

[Mac_Muz]

Opps....yeah I carry a mold and alot more stuff in my shootin bag.
i have been using this smooth bore so long I take it for granted that tools of all kinds are there. Things for fishin, and sewin, an cookin and you know ........

I have been thinkin on gettin a .62 jager circa 1730, but it won't shoot shot.

I know this is off topic so please don't yell too loud Mac-Muz

[Conformerx]

Ballictically they are neck and neck. With each other, but I would much rather have a SKS. The drop on the 7.62x39 isn't as bad as .30-30. That and SKS maintance would be easier.

[DeltaWolf]

When was the last time you seen a case of 30/30 for $70.00?

Now You know my choice ;)

[farranger]

The converted 45-70's were reported to be unreliable. It is reported that the brass of the cartridges was improperly annealed and that when the soldiers operated the 45-70 latch it would pull the head off the cartridge on a pretty regular basis.

Had custer's men had henry's, they might have lost, but the the death toll of Indians would have not doubt been higher.

Custer's battle with over 1000 Sioux in July 1876.

Dawn, June 27th 1876, 300 miles Southwest of dodge city Kansas, 2000 plains indians gather to attack a buffalo hunting camp called Adobe Walls. They attack at dawn, no guards posted, but fortunately a skinner got up to take a leak and saw them coming and started yelling. Wagons were already circled. There were several buffalo hunters and approx 26 skinners all with the then relatively new henry rifles. There was a wagonload of henry 44 rimfire ammo and thousand of rounds buffalo hunting ammo.

The Indians ran into a withering fire put down by 26 skinners each operating a rifle holding 17 shots. These Indians were mostly unaware of the repeating rifle. They were mowed down.

After several attacks and circling the camp and more Indians being killed all the time the Indians pulled back and an Indian medicine man began making medicine in front of the white men at a range estimate to be 1,200 yards. A buffalo hunter named billy ogg settled his 45-70 in his shoulder and killed the Indian with a single shot.
The Indians backed off to a knoll later stepped of at a range of just over 2000 yards, remember a mile is 1760 yards and Buffalo hunter billy dixon knocked him off his horse. The Indians decided the medicine was bad and left.

I'm doing this from memory and I may have the ranges a little off, and It may be that it was the reverse on who shot first billy ogg and dixon.

But the moral is cover was had and firepower was there. Custer could have had this had the goverment given it to him and had he not been an arrogant butthead. Less than 30 days separate these events. Firepower rules, take you sks.

[powerkicker]

[ ...By Friscopete

. No army has ever equipped itself with the 30-30 or the lever-action rifle, yet the SKS has been combat proven in battle all over the globe for 56 years. I think even the Sioux would have picked the SKS over their Winchesters and Henrys at Custers Last Stand! I know Custer would have! [/B][/QUOTE]

.........Not true...The Russians armed themselves with the Winchester M1895 in 7.62R back at the turn of the century.The gun even sported the deadly and evil bayonet lug!:bigdeal:

[GCcowboy]

At one time or another, I have had both...still have the Win 94...it rarely leaves the safe...I'd take and SKS or even better an AK any day

[farranger]

Gasp, Powerkicker, how did Russian society survive a bayonet lugged lever action, the two deadliest things ever seen on the planet, now on one weapon. Oh wait, even bigger gasp, Russian society didn't survive, it collapsed a mere 45 years later, no doubt the result of said combination of evil material things, since communism is well known to hold to materialism, dialectical materialism.

We are left to draw one conclusion, America will fall, due to evil bayonet lugs and as patriots the only thing we can do is rid the country of them and grovel before the true patriotic leftists begging them to enlighten us on all the other evil things that will destroy America, we should beg their forgiveness for not understanding that Klinton was right to ban evil bayonet lugs.

oh mea culpa, mea culpa.

[GrinningGun]

Hmmm this is an easy pick.
SKS
Small, light, needs little maintenance, semi-auto, low recoil, low muzzle rise, combat sites for various ranges, 10 round capacity, quick reloading.

.30-30
Small, light, low maintenance, lever action, kicks like a mule, more muzzle rise than SKS, 1 range sites, 7 round capacity, slow reloading.

The SKS wins hands down. Sure due to bullet size the 30-30 has more energy. But plink 100 rounds out of a .30-30 and then a SKS. Not only does the SKS have less recoil due to bullet size but also due to semi-auto. Ammo weight is also a factor 100 rounds of 7.62x39mm weighs less than 100 rounds of .30-30. As far as topping of rounds in the .30-30 when there's a lul in fighting. What lul? Ok maybe there is a lul, and say you've shot 4 rounds (not much) by the time you get 4 rounds out and shoved in .30-30 you could have fired 10 with the SKS and popped in a stripper clip. But then says there's no lul and you have to fire 7 rounds. How long will it take you to put 7 back in it? You can't call timeout... Hows that .30-30 like dirt and mud? How about that muddy ditch you just dove into which is gonna cause you to put 7 dirty bullets into a weapon designed to stay clean. How about 2nd shot acquisition? You think you can shoot, re-aim, cock, and shoot again before I can shoot, re-aim, shoot? It may not seem like much time on a stop-watch but even .25 of a second at 50 yards the SKS round has already struck it's target.
Well I think thats enough personally I know that some people like .30-30's for hunting on horseback (cowboys;) ) but other than that it's not much of a hunting gun. A 12 gauge beats it hands down as a hunting gun. Unless you want accuracy at 100 yards. Most people when they hunt are either in the woods or on the edge of a field. So in the woods shotgun in the field bolt action .30-06. So as a Survival/Utility weapon the SKS will kill a deer. (heck a .22 will kill a deer.) and the SKS is a combat proven weapon. Against a gun that will kill a deer, maybe something a little bigger if you could get close enough. Also another note is that although at 100 yards the .30-30 packs more punch at 200 yards you'd better be aiming high with good kentucky windage to hit something with a .30-30. With an SKS you simply raise the rear sight all the way out to 800 meters (although almost impossible to hit at that range.)
Even if they were compared as a hunting weapon the SKS IMHO would still have the edge. Because although the .30-30 packs more punch due to shape and size of the round you still have to hit them in the right place or they just run off wounded. It's not like an SKS where due to the shape and size of the round if it hits a rib bone or something it's gonna turn or split. I personally shot a deer in the wrong place with my SKS when I was 14. The deer had 2 exit wounds and a piece of lead rattling around in it's ribcage. More holes are better than 1!
:rant:

[lobst3r]

A buddy of mine and I constantly go around with this one. He's a typical "modern cowboy" who loves his pre-64 Winchesters. (He's in his 50's. I'm in my late 30's.) I love the modern military gear, especially AK's. He thinks I'm nuts, and I think he's re-living his youth, dreaming about the wild west.

Anyway, he seems to think that the 'ole Win 94 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He feels that there is no better rifle on the planet. He feels that if the SHTF, he'll be all set with his 94.

But, I think he's talking from his heart, not his head.

The difference here is FIREPOWER. There is no way in heck that you're going to get me to choose a 30-30 lever action over an SKS for any role. In my opinion, the SKS can safely be considered a full-blown modern day war machine. I saw a Palestinian dude on the cover of Time a few months back shooting an SKS at a group of unseen Israelis, and although he was crazy to face a bunch of M-4 armed combat troops, he would have been able to get off 10 shots within just a few seconds, enough to scare the crap out of a group of 30-30 wielding combantants.

I'll get to the other stuff later, but now I have to get ready to take the daughter to school.

Lobst3r out.

[Spandau]

Hi,
I just had to chime in. I keep hearing firepower mentioned. Have any of you ever actually fired a 94? If you develope the skills a good lever action can keep up with a semi auto quite well as far as aimed fire in concerned. The 94 is sturdy, reliable and ammo only costs 6-7 dollars a box in my part of the country. Also, from a political and legal standpoint it may be a better weapon to defend yourself with if you have to go to court afterwards. And it is a much better hunting rifle.

[powerkicker]

I don't think anyone was questioning the lever-actions cycling speed primarily.I think the real disadvantage being alluded to is in the RELOADING speed. It DOES take alot longer to thumb those 30/30 rounds through the loading gate than it does to strip 10 rounds into an sKS-pattern rifle.;)

[Wolvie]

well i remember an article about how great the 94 was over the sks, an i remember i think it was cooper promoting some smithy that was modifyin em into 'combat' rifles, turnin down the edges puttin syn stocks on em an ghost ring sites an such, but damn that really jacks the cost up and i don't care whatcha say take a person of equal on each rifle an run a combat course with it, time vrs accuracy an speed, an the sks will win. now if ya can't own a semi then the lever will do, i mean damn i have a few of both but if the shit hit the fan i'd want an autoloader. as to ammo, there are soft points comin out now from russia an other places that don't cost a whole lot more then FMJ, i ought to know i orderred some from likemopar. with all the issue lesse
cost used 94 200 bucks if you are lucky
used sks well under 200 bucks if you look around

ammo 30-30 at say Kmart or walmart 10 a box
7.62 2-4 a box dependin on where you go
7.62 premium is still less then 3030

faster follow up shot has to go to sks
faster reload has to go to sks
capacity goes to sks


an btw i've found usually for jeff cooper if it ain't a garand he don't like it anyhow

:rockin: :rockin:



Henry Bowman Where Are You

[lobst3r]

Ever try to bumpfire a 94?

I rest my case. ;)