Attack/Defend scenario what would you do?

[NC charlie]

Was wondering what you and your group would do to attack a given area, and what would you do to defend a given area??

The area I am making it all up I am not planning on Leading an attack...
...yet

The catch is you only can use the guns your real friends you would want in your group or whatever actually has, so no using missle's bombs massive artillery, air support tanks and stuff like that!

But will say it's in a fairly mountainous area. The base if you will, is in a key pass that would save your troop's a 2 or 3 day hike up and over the trecherous almost impassable mountains somewhere else, so this is a key point for a supply route for your cause, The base is nothing more than some big cut down tree's stacked up for wall's about 3 feet high, the tree's are massive so shooting threw them isn't an option, there are lookouts up on the peaks to either side so sneaking around an attacking from the other side isn't an option, there are aproximately 10 men holding the position, 3 or 4 of them have there hunting rifles for long range shooting at attackers coming up the valley, Everybody has there ak's and sks's, and a few have combat shootguns for close up work! They have plenty of ammo, food and water and all other supplies needed to survive with out resupplying from ther alies for a long time so wering them down in the ammo part isn't an option.

Your group of no more than 15 is equipped with what ever you have ready for the SHTF scenarios, and nothing more, your along way from your back up, you were sent on this mission because your the best your side has ans this is an impotant mission, there are also no roads for aways so you could only bring the very bare essentials.

SO what would you guys do to take the position, I was thinking along the lines of sending a couple of snipers and trying to pik off a few of them or fix the bayonets and attach the HI CAP mags and lead a spray and pray bayo charge , but then again I am not the tactics expert around here, that's why I am asking this, also how would you defend the given position??

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Charlie

[WETSU]

Whoa Charlie, what a situation. I think your command needs to rethink the importance of taking this position just to make your side's resupply easier! In a guerrilla war, you (the guerrilla) use the most difficult, inhospitable terrain to your advantage. Travel where the enemy doesn't WANT to look for you. That means up and over the mountains. I would use my best climbers (about a third of my guys are good climbers) to train a party of armed porters.Second option I would negotiate with them for safe passage, using the threat of force mildly, and reinforced with some sort of reward. We may pick up some allies.
However, that was not your question. With 15 guys (5 more than I have on my team now) and armed with our real weapons, we would wipe those people out. I would use two scout/observer teams to stalk the position and harrass them for seven days. If they sent out a patrol to find the snipers they would be ambushed after departing the perimeter, and when out of support range. Assuming they have radios on patrol, any response force coming from the camp would also be hit. If possible I would capture one man and interogate him for information on his camp, it's defenses, arms, # of men left, condition, morale etc. Eventually, they would be worn down and eliminated. Bayonet charge is out of the question. Occupying the position after is out also. I would bury their dead on that site with a warning sign.

[TR]

Forget the frontal assualt with the spray and pray stuff.

Take one of the flanking heights where the lookouts are and you have them cold. Once you are above and behind them they are history.

Go for the high ground, and in this case, the weaker force is on the high ground. That is the enemy's mistake here.

If I were defending this pass I would not be on the low ground with most of my force. I'd entrench on the high ground and dare the enemy to get below me in the pass.

Take the high ground and keep the high ground.

[Jeff Stallard]

There are a million different ways of assaulting something like that. With just the limited information you gave however, it's impossible to come up with the best way. The key, obviously, is to never do what they expect. With them in such an immobile position, I can't see that it would be difficult, especially since you outnumber them and are mobile. So the sentrys see you coming...so what? They're going to stay hunkered down in their fort no matter what. The wooded terrain helps you stay concealed, and the cleared-out area they constructed their base in is going to give your snipers easy targets.

[HDR]

Agree with TR.
There are qite a few unknowns yet. The width of the valley? Height of the peaks? Does the base have mortars, Will they be re-enforced? Are they just another group of people or are they NWO? With air support etc..

But from the supplied information....
The base's strength is dependant upon the sentrys. Silently remove and replace the sentrys before light. The base is now in a cross fire, with no escape route.
Any counter attack they mount must come across open ground then up hill..

[ValmetM76]

To attack a fortified defended position you need a 6 to 1 superiority in manpower. Or you need a force multiplier, like mortars, RPGs, artillery or other heavy weapons.

Go around.

If you are defending, remember, SOMEBODY is going to come around with the neccessary force multiplier.

Regards,
Mike

[Confucion]

In defence, you have to start fucking them from 2000 yards out, but cleverly. Use snipers in concealed positions to both kill and disable men. You know, fire once, back 10 meters, fir again, and so on. In this situation i wouldnt worry about two to carry one stuff, but sniping a kneecap off does wonders for morale (or how about genitals...). Use claymores, tripwire grenades, buried bullets, every booby trap going in every possible location. They either rush through and take the losses, or they slow down and the snipers pour it on. Once they get close, hit them with automatic fire from initially unseen and connected position networks. have men in the pass above them, have men to the sides, have cut off groups (define the fire arcs clearly!) behind them. Hit them with a mag, fall back unseen, hit them again. mine the area to pieces. use gasoline lakes to channel them into killing fields. Above all, use every oppurtunity to cut down the volume of fire you recieve. Also disable or jam comms to avoid getting blasted by air or Arty fire. Tanks? Use molotovs, mines and milans. the three m's we call them.

when attacking, i would get higher then them, then pelt them with so much thrown grenades and M70 fire (and similar) that they couldnt see for shit- bang goes that concealed position advantage. Then i figure on a rugged area sweep with massive overkill, flamethowers and rpg's on every suspicoius location. then burn the survivors. scavenge the battlefield clean, then take up defensive positions. Heres one for you... How does my defence stop my attack? Someone tell me...

[LAgunman2K-3]

where do you find a sniper that can take the nuts off the enemy from 2000 yards ??? must be one hell of a marksman and id like to buy one of those guns, havent heard of many snipers that could or would shoot someone past 1200 yards, unless they have a 50cal, and then a 50cal max range is about 2200-2500 yards (within your prescibed distance)

i do agree on wreaking some havoc for the enemy as far out as possible, but do you have enough explosive ordinance to surrond your position? seems like they could out flank your booby trapped area
2000 yards is close to 1 1/2 half miles, maybe almost 2 miles -- do mortars make it out that far? (dont know never fired one)
2000 yards away would give you about 15 min before they reached your position

you make some good points, i just dont agree with them all realisticly

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and on the 8th day GOD made the AK-47 and saw that this was good

talk is cheap, but bullets are even Cheaper!!!

[The_Sabre]

If you're defending the position, you should have cleared ALL the trees and brush away so the enemy has no where to hide. If they can't go around and they absolutly MUST take the pass you're defending, and they try to come up anyway, snipe them. Shoot ALL their kneecaps and/or make their heads explode w. HP.

Theres something you forgot-anti-air capabilities. What if they bring in their friend on a little piece of crap lawnmower engine ultralight plane and start dropping grenades/ Molotov cocktails? Or if they cropdust yourposition with gasoline or even just normal pesticides?
Death from above.....

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"Bows didn't stop us at the Battle of Koom valley."
"Hamish, that was between dwarves and trolls, and you're neither."
I was on the side of bein' paid money to fight.
Best side there is."
Hamish, Truckle-Interesting times by Terry Pratchett

[Confucion]

LA_Gunman, my point was have the snipers out in front of the position, to fall back to the perimeter. Also, if we're in a mountain pass here, i would make two practical assumptions: That terrain will channel them into my traps, and that those pesky hills will force them up to an altitude to either a) rule out grenades or b) have the petrol spread over a vast distance. However, we would need more data, dispositions, terrain and weapons info before a definite plan could come into shape.
How's this for a challenge: Defend Thermopylae pass against a standard Greek Infantry Batt., defending as a turkish inf. coy. If you need it easy, then there is no armour or air, the attackers on foot, so are you, you have only standard weapons but unlimited (practically) explosives. You know the area, get a map, and let us know, you could tell us the map-references for your lines and OP's etc. Assume enemy is only attacking from Adriatic/Southern side.

Oh, and by the way, we've used .50 cal to take out brit paras through partial cover like hedgerows and brick walls from a mile- with aimed head shots, so it is well within operational realism. Thankyou and good night

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Up the Republic!