.243 replacing the .223 in assault rifles

[newlineofdefense]

I mentioned this in my (AK-47 in Ambush Role) article and J.A. replied that the .243 is too large for the G3/FNFAL. He said that it is much too powerful for an assault rifle and that auto and even rapid semi-auto fire would be impossible due to recoil. What? The .308 is chambered for both and the .243 is quite smaller than the .308 which equals less recoil and even less ballistical performance. I just had to reply to his statement. Anyway, the .243 is an excellent small caliber round round in itself and the .243 would be an excellent replacement for the ever so popular .223 found in so many assault systems. the .243 in almost all of its variations exceed the .223 in ballistical performance. .243 weight as far as the round ranges from 55 grains to 100 grains with even the 100 grain round exceeding 2,700 FPS on average. The notorious 55 grain .223 doesn't even exceed 3,000 FPS as winchester's 55 grain .243 load exceeds 4,000FPS (4,150 FPS). The .243 is a short round, which is perfect in reducing a long-action recoil system. The .243 is a superior choice for an assault rifle firing a round smaller than the .308. Ask Armalite. They have Ar-10's now firing this round. Smart and tactically efficient choice. .243DPZ

[RRK]

Thanks but no thanks,i'll stick with my
165 grain .308 http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/smile.gif

I ment that the .243 would require a G3/FNFAL size rifle. If you have ever rapid fired a Remington 7400 in .243(winchester 100gr loads) with a 10 shot mag you will see what I mean by uncontrolable.
Yes it is alot better than a G3 in semi or full auto.
Armalite makes a AR-10 in .243 get one and all your dreams will come true.

[ramius]

J.A. ... LOL!

The .243 is a viable round, but it's sort of like the old saying... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I've got a .308 battle rifle (M1A) and my AK. I really think the 7.62X39 is the best compromise. The Germans proved it first and the Russians perfected it. The .243 is sort of a .223 on steroids... an improvement? Maybe. But why?

Just my opinion. Your results may vary.



------------------
-ramius...
right wing extremist gun nut
...and proud of it.

[LAgunman2K-3]

isnt the 243 round more for hunting purposes and accuracy than for a military/combat role? and what is the world wide availibility of the 243 ? the 7.62 is much worldly available and in a comabt situation it would be easier to find or make or buy if your forces were to go low on ammo supplies isnt the reason why the military snipers went to 308 and away from the 30-06 is so there would be ammo available since the machine gunners use this common round ??

[Floyd]

The .243 would be an excellent round; however, non-availability of cheap ammo and acquiring a new weapon system doesn't make it too appealing. The British wanted the FAL to be chambered for the .280, but politics gave us the .308. Snipers do use the .308, but they don't use the same stuff that's belted for machine guns. Only match grade ammo sees their bolts.

------------------
Join the NRA!!!

[col_kurtz]

The M-1 Garand would have been .270 if Gen McArthur hadn't stepped in. He felt the US should use up the millions probably billions of surplus rounds left over from WWI. As for corrosive ammo? Just take in the shower with you. So there was a move towards a smaller round even back in the 30's

[Smackdab]

I once heard that the London metropolitan police used a .243 80 grn. Winchester loading for urban pacification...er sniping. They chose the round because it supposedly is less suseptable to cross breezes.

[Packrat]

The .243 calibre (6mm) if not the .243 cartridge is nearly 100 years old. I think the Lee straight-pull (action like a gas-operated semi-auto, but with no gas system) was about 1905. It was scrapped because it was too dificult to clean, with the corrosive powder and primers available then. The .243 has been a popular long-range varmit cartridge since the '20s or '30s. It bucks sind better than the .22 rounds. But cost and availability make it impractical for a TSHTF weapon. Sadly, our AKs will be impractical in the long run unless you have stocked up on ammo.

------------------
Packrat

[Heavy Metal]

I hate to dissagree with you Packrat, but the .243 Winchester was derived from the .308 Winchester(7.62 nato)shortly after the release of that round in the 1950's. You can even make .243 brass out of .308 in a pinch. I has not ben around since the 1920's. Mabey you are thinking of the .270, which started out as a wildcat.

[Cogito Ergo Zoom]

newlineofdefense,

I share your opinion that a 6mm cartridge would be a good compromise.

As Floyd alluded, the British thought along these same lines. They did some studies where they concluded that a 6-6.5mm cartridge with a 120-130 grain projectile at about 2600 fps would be ideal with regards to a compromise towards control, lethality and weight.

It is interesting to note your reference to the G3 and the FAL. The Spanish CETME who had hired the people who went on to form H&K, developed the precursor to the G3. The protypes were chambered for a number of cartridges, one of the final versions was setup for a version of the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge which was loaded down to about 2600 fps with a projectile of about 125 grains if I remember right. I do not think the Spanish still use this, but I think the Japanese did for quite some time (afte WWII naturally) and maybe still do.

Also interesting is the reason a lot of people choose the FAL - because its gas system can be adjusted in the field to function with light loads as mentioned above.

Also of interest - I had heard the Soviets (now Russians) were considering switching from 5.45x39 to a 6mm cartridge when they go from the Kalashnikov to the new Nikonov. I then heard this was shelved due to their money problems.

FWIW,
LCB

[Gary]

The .243 is an excellant round. However, I wouldn't trade a HK91 or FN-FAL in .308 for a HK or FN in .243. Keep it standard.

Also, when compared to the .223, the .243 is substantially heavier and you carry fewer rounds for the weight.

In all, it's a different cartridge with a different mission. Not to flame the .243 and I certainly would not want to be hit by one, but I'll stay with the herd on this one.

[akjunkie]

just my .02cents...IMHO, the best round available is probably the chinese 5.7x45, as used in their new bullpups and Ak's.

[Cogito Ergo Zoom]

akjunkie,

Do you instead mean the 5.45x39? Or do you mean the 5.56x45 (aka .223 Remington) which is actually an American cartridge?

Either way, I prefer 6.5 mm projectiles as a good compromise over either 5.45/5.56mm projectiles or 7.62mm projectiles - for the reasons already outlined in the discussion above.

LCB