Army Considers Plastic Ammo

[Gunreference1]

Army Considers Plastic Ammo

Posted on July 18, 2011
by Robert Farago

“Soldiers may soon have a solution . . . that cuts the weight of small-arms ammunition nearly in half and provides a potential replacement for the SAW that weighs a whopping 8.3 pounds less than the current M249,” military.com reports. “The weight reduction comes in the form of a new light machine gun and ammunition developed by engineers from the Lightweight Small Arms Technologies [LSAT] program.” According to Kori Phillips, systems management engineer with Joisey-based ARDEC [Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center], “We are using cased telescoped ammunition which uses a strong plastic case instead of a traditional brass case.” And that means . . .

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07...-plastic-ammo/

Steve Mace

[Justin]

It would be nice if we could get cheaper plastic case ammo for ourselves, in 7.62x39 or 5.56. I'd do a lot more shooting if ammo prices were cheaper.

[davepool]

Too bad they didn't have a pic of the cartridge. What happens to the plastic case, does it disintegrate and come out the barrel?

[deth502]

plastic cases have benn around for a while, theyre nothing new.

however, i would think the military would be the last place to use them. civilian use for plinking and shit is one thing, but teh heat generated during sustained full auto fire would be quite another, imo, for a plastic case.

[stinker]

When i opened this i figured it was going to be jacketed plastic core slugs. That's nothing new. I have some old russian 7.62x39 plastic core training ammo that was sales pitched as "sniper rounds" by the guy at the gun show. The stuff is absolutely devastating on softer targets because it mushrooms worse than any other bullet that i've ever seen. Shit penetration on harder objects but it will blow a huge chunk of wood out of the backside of a 4x4 post and damn near split it in half.

Plastic cases are nothing new either. I have a single 9mm round in my bullet collection that i obtained from a dealers junk bin about 18 years ago that has a flat nose copper slug with a white plastic case. Never figured out where/who/what/why it came from.

I'd upload a pic of it but i can't right now since i'm out on the road and it's buried in a storage unit.

[Schuetzenman]

plastic cases have benn around for a while, theyre nothing new.

however, i would think the military would be the last place to use them. civilian use for plinking and shit is one thing, but teh heat generated during sustained full auto fire would be quite another, imo, for a plastic case.

Did you read the article at the link? It has a rotating chamber, though they don't say how many chambers. If it had 5 then 1,000 rounds down the pipe would only have the heat of 200 rounds in each chamber. The plastic is inefficient in trasmitting heat, so the chambers should stay much cooler according to the article.

[deth502]

Did you read the article at the link? It has a rotating chamber, though they don't say how many chambers. If it had 5 then 1,000 rounds down the pipe would only have the heat of 200 rounds in each chamber. The plastic is inefficient in trasmitting heat, so the chambers should stay much cooler according to the article.

guilty, didnt click the link to read the entire article, i was going on the excerpt posted, which mentioned the m249.

[deth502]

ok, just read it and im a bit confused. there needs to be some drawings of this new gun. it said rotating chamber. no "s" im picturing one chamber, and, since they call it a "rotating" chamber, for some reason, i get the idea that it rotates. but then i go on reading and it mentions "long-stroke, soft-recoil design", whereas, "long stroke" gives the idea of fore and aft reciprocal motion, and not rotation. if the chamber rotates to feed the ammo, i see it feeding in one side and ejection out the other, a side to side action, with no fore and aft movement.

imo, the ammo should not be the story here. im very interested to see how this thing is actually put together, as right now, all that can be done is speculate.

[FunkyPertwee]

Could we finally be seeing a (real) man portable mini-gun?

[Schuetzenman]

ok, just read it and im a bit confused. there needs to be some drawings of this new gun. it said rotating chamber. no "s" im picturing one chamber, and, since they call it a "rotating" chamber, for some reason, i get the idea that it rotates. but then i go on reading and it mentions "long-stroke, soft-recoil design", whereas, "long stroke" gives the idea of fore and aft reciprocal motion, and not rotation. if the chamber rotates to feed the ammo, i see it feeding in one side and ejection out the other, a side to side action, with no fore and aft movement.

imo, the ammo should not be the story here. im very interested to see how this thing is actually put together, as right now, all that can be done is speculate.

Like I said they say "Rotating Chamber" but they don't say how many. I'd think it has to have at least 2 chambers or it wouild be pointless to rotate 1 chamber. Mini guns have 5 to 6 barrels so possibly that weaopn has 5 to 6 chambers.

[Helen Keller]

SOunds like the same concept some cannons use.

Multiple chambers with 1 barrel.

[O.S.O.K.]

They also speak of the insulative quality of the plastic cases which reduce heat transfer as well as prevent cook-offs.

And the cases remain intact and eject from the receiver during firing.

I'm actually kind of surprised that we haven't already gone to a polymer or even ceramic polymer cased ammo by now.

[deth502]

Like I said they say "Rotating Chamber" but they don't say how many. I'd think it has to have at least 2 chambers or it wouild be pointless to rotate 1 chamber. Mini guns have 5 to 6 barrels so possibly that weaopn has 5 to 6 chambers.

the first thing that popped into my head was a belt feed mechanism, while it dosent actually "rotate" it uses a side to side movement, that can be had by rotating a drive for the feed pawls. only firing from that position, instead of just de-linking.

again, hard to tell anything from the description, id love to see some specs/working drawings on this new gun.

[stinker]

Rotating Chamber

I'm thinking something like the 3 barrel minigun props from the movie deep rising made for real.

[deth502]

there is nothing in the article to indicate that there woul be more than one barrel.

The chamber is unique in that the cartridge goes straight through from feed to eject.
“With a regular SAW, or M249, the chamber and barrel is one piece,” Phillips explained.

“But in this new light machine gun, the chamber rotates back and forth. The system works in a cyclical pattern, so there’s no interference.”

it states that it is different from teh m249, because the m249 has a chamber and a barrel in one piece. this leads one to believe that the chamber and barrel ARE NOT one piece. possibly someth8ing like an auto revolver, but i cant see how a revolver cylinder could be easily loaded/unloaded to facilitate any kind of decent rof in fa.

[Schuetzenman]

there is nothing in the article to indicate that there woul be more than one barrel.



it states that it is different from teh m249, because the m249 has a chamber and a barrel in one piece. this leads one to believe that the chamber and barrel ARE NOT one piece. possibly someth8ing like an auto revolver, but i cant see how a revolver cylinder could be easily loaded/unloaded to facilitate any kind of decent rof in fa.

Same way a Mini gun works, ammo belt fed in inserted and as the barrel rotates, extracted. In this case only rotating chambers. I would wonder how dirt proof such a system might be.

[f.b.l.p]

I remember,sorta,some years ago there was a pistol called the"Dardick".It used rounds with a plastic,triangular case called trounds.If memory serves,It used a revolver-like cylinder,But I think it was a semi-auto. I think.

[Gunreference1]

The Dardick handgun was a magazine-fed, open (rotating) chamber revolver that used plastic cased ammunition. Why can't that be the the basis of a modern full-auto rifle?

Steve