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Thread: Thoughts on this safe?

  1. #1
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011

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    Thoughts on this safe?

    Dicks has a 24 gun fire safe from stack on for 399.00 as part of their black friday sale.

    http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/pr...uctId=11843769

    Through 11/23 you can pre-order it in the store at the black friday price. I think that's a pretty screaming deal for a 24 gun fire safe. This will be my first safe though, and I'm wondering about people's thoughts or experiences with safes in general, or stack on brand.

    Currently I'm planning to stick it in a second floor room, and it has two pilot holes for securing the safe to the floor. The safe weighs 419 lbs unloaded. I know there are some structural issues with something that heavy in a second floor room, but I'm planning to build a wooden platform for it to set on so the load is distributed over several parallel joists.

  2. #2
    That is a sweet deal.
    Just about what I was looking for.
    Thanks for the tip.
    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
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  3. #3
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Lightbulb

    http://www.stack-on.com/categories/stack-on-safes
    They haver 4 models of gun safe with fire package.
    Premier
    Total Defense
    Elite
    Stack-On Safes
    The number of active and passive bolts, (possibly the diameter of the bolts vary, bigger ones in the more costly models) that secure the door in the frame vary, probably the gauge metal thickness and the weight resulting from the different gauge thicknesses of metal used on the safe.

    Less than 500 pounds empty, you don't need to worry about the floor IMHO. You will need to find the floor joists and lag screw into those with as big and long a lag screw as you can fit in the holes or the joists. Safe weight is almost irrelevant to being able to move it or steal it. How well it's anchored IS.

    Example, my vault is a Drake Safe, surely you've seen him at the gun shows in NC, especially if you get to the big one at the fair grounds in Raleigh. Anyway the drake is very heavy, 950 lbs. empty. But you know what, after I unbolted it from the 2 x 12 joists where it was located in NC I was able to move it by myself to get it on a flat bed out side my store's door. It comes down to simple tools, like the ancient Egyptians, the use of a long round rod shape = rollers to roll a big heavy thing on with very little effort. All that is required is to be able to tip up a vault and get a piece of black iron pipe under it. 3 pieces of said pipe makes it very easy, you roll till it's about to come off the back roller-pipe and lay down the thrid one, and keep pushing. Repeat to advance the safe.

    Getting it upstairs, well that's a little tougher but the best way would be to make a wood path / ramp that lays on the stairs. Then you simply put rollers on it and lay it over and slide it up the ramp. You will probably need a second body to help with this. I hope the stair well is wide enough for each of you to be on either side of the safe so if you slip it doesn't run overy one of you. This will work best if you have room to have it get to the upper story and lay flat so that you can then pick it back up to vertical. Use rollers to roll into final position and then line up on your floor joists. Mark the floor first for the locations of the joists.

    Aside from the fire package and how long it will keep the contents from harm, the thickness of the safe is paramount in preventing break in. The doors on low cost safes are frequently quite good, but the body of the safe is thin. You drill a starter hole, use a cold chisel and a 2 LB. hammer and you can peal a sheet metal safe like a can of sardines.

    This brings me to the Drake Safes again. I picked them because for the money that gets you a name brand sheet metal safe you can get a Drake that has 1/4" steel on all 6 sides of the vault box. You won't peal a Drake open. My 2 cents.

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    The one thing concerns me most is that there are only two pre-drilled holes in the bottom of the safe for the lag bolts. I'm not too concerned about the fire rating since I have insurance (just an added bonus for me). Its theft that worries me.

    The safe peeling thing is something I didn't really think about. I wasn't aware it was that easy, but my guess is plenty of career criminals are. I don't consider this safe a "tank" grade safe, and I'm really hoping it will just make it too much of a hassel for the run of the mill thug to bother with. I'm planning to get a security system in the near future as well.

    I haven't worked out all the details on how to get it upstairs (I took some measurements to make sure it would fit through all the doors). I thought about making a ramp up the stairs with some boards. The stairs aren't nearly wide enough for even one person to stand to the side with the safe on the stairs. I may tie a rope around it and just have a friend help me pull it up the ramp. I checked and the door can be taken off very easily when the safe is open. I think that should cut the empty weight down about 100lbs. 2 people should be able to handle a 300 lbs load ok I think.

  5. #5
    With a good furniture/appliance dolly, getting one of these up some stairs
    is a two man job.

    I was going to use this size safe and embed it into an 8" concrete block wall.
    Weld several 12" long rebar studs around the frame perimeter and grout it
    all in place.

    Looks like I'm on the road at 4 am Friday to hop on this deal.
    Last edited by rahatlakhoom; 11-23-2011 at 09:19 PM.
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    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dafapa View Post
    The one thing concerns me most is that there are only two pre-drilled holes in the bottom of the safe for the lag bolts. I'm not too concerned about the fire rating since I have insurance (just an added bonus for me). Its theft that worries me.

    The safe peeling thing is something I didn't really think about. I wasn't aware it was that easy, but my guess is plenty of career criminals are. I don't consider this safe a "tank" grade safe, and I'm really hoping it will just make it too much of a hassel for the run of the mill thug to bother with. I'm planning to get a security system in the near future as well.

    I haven't worked out all the details on how to get it upstairs (I took some measurements to make sure it would fit through all the doors). I thought about making a ramp up the stairs with some boards. The stairs aren't nearly wide enough for even one person to stand to the side with the safe on the stairs. I may tie a rope around it and just have a friend help me pull it up the ramp. I checked and the door can be taken off very easily when the safe is open. I think that should cut the empty weight down about 100lbs. 2 people should be able to handle a 300 lbs load ok I think.
    Any vault or safe for your guns is better than a closet or under the bed by 1000%. Most burglers are in less than 20 minutes and they grab what they can easily. Now if they see the vault they might come back better prepared to break into that but at least the first break in is covered. Also you are covered by the local boyz in da hood types that break in to steal stuff to hock for drug money. On the holes, if it has only 2, nothing says you can't put more in it. Electric drill and a drill bit = holes. My Drakes came without holes but it was no big deal to go through the fire insulation and the steel with a High Speed drill bit. 4 would probably proved better support. Oh and don't forget some good big washers to distribute load over more surface area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    Any vault or safe for your guns is better than a closet or under the bed by 1000%. Most burglers are in less than 20 minutes and they grab what they can easily. Now if they see the vault they might come back better prepared to break into that but at least the first break in is covered. Also you are covered by the local boyz in da hood types that break in to steal stuff to hock for drug money. On the holes, if it has only 2, nothing says you can't put more in it. Electric drill and a drill bit = holes. My Drakes came without holes but it was no big deal to go through the fire insulation and the steel with a High Speed drill bit. 4 would probably proved better support. Oh and don't forget some good big washers to distribute load over more surface area.
    Good point, I can always drill more holes. The manual did say though drilling any other holes through the fire insulation would void the fire rating warranty, but I really didn't get a safe to protect against fire.

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    Senior Member Helen Keller's Avatar

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    i basically have a jail cell built around my safe.



    I need to get another soon.
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    Thickness of the metal exterior other than the door is a factor as well as the number of the locking bolts. For the price it seems to be a good call.
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  10. #10
    It's a good little safe.
    Interior height is just over 52", otherwise
    a good deal at 399.00

    Again, thanks for the heads up on this deal.
    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
    George Orwell

  11. #11
    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    That level of safe will do as mentioned - slow a thief down - that is all. And there is a product that you may want to look at to use with this - it's a strip of special material that you put all around the door opening - that effectively seals off the contents when exposed to heat - the safe, as-is will not do a very good job of that.

    I read an article in Handloader (or could have been Rifle) magazine about this product - it was highly recommended by Brian Pearson. It's not expensive.

    As for me, I am more of the "insure them" and "hide them" school.

    It's not that hard to create a hidden space in most homes. You might consider using the safe for it's fire protection qualities but creating a hidden room for it.

    Like using the back of a walk-in closet - just make a new wall with a hidden way of opening it - just big enough for the safe to fit into.

    Something that isn't seen won't be stolen.
    ~Nemo me impune lacessit~




  12. #12
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
    As for me, I am more of the "insure them" and "hide them" school.

    It's not that hard to create a hidden space in most homes. You might consider using the safe for it's fire protection qualities but creating a hidden room for it.

    Like using the back of a walk-in closet - just make a new wall with a hidden way of opening it - just big enough for the safe to fit into.

    Something that isn't seen won't be stolen.
    I am skeptical that any hidy-hole false room thing can be hidden well enough to pass being detected. If the wall moves, there has to be a way to open it. There has to be clearances for the movement and therefore there will be tell-tale signs that could tip off it's presence.

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    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    I am skeptical that any hidy-hole false room thing can be hidden well enough to pass being detected. If the wall moves, there has to be a way to open it. There has to be clearances for the movement and therefore there will be tell-tale signs that could tip off it's presence.
    Good point. You absolutely must do a good job on the hidden room entrance. But it is not hard really and is absolutely effective. Some asshat that has broken into your home to rob it is not going to stand around calmly observing the spaces looking for anything out of the ordinary... they're going to be experiencing an adrenaline rush and hurredly snatching whatever presents itself with a quick search.
    ~Nemo me impune lacessit~




  14. #14
    Senior Member L1A1Rocker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    I am skeptical that any hidy-hole false room thing can be hidden well enough to pass being detected. If the wall moves, there has to be a way to open it. There has to be clearances for the movement and therefore there will be tell-tale signs that could tip off it's presence.
    I once saw a hidy-closet that was very well hidden. In the back of a normal walkin closet was a beautiful 5 foot tall oak shoe rack (with shoes). Under one of the shelves to the far left was a screw that looked like all the other screws. Unscrew that one screw and the intire shoe rack upened up like a door to another closet. It was very clever.
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    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by L1A1Rocker View Post
    I once saw a hidy-closet that was very well hidden. In the back of a normal walkin closet was a beautiful 5 foot tall oak shoe rack (with shoes). Under one of the shelves to the far left was a screw that looked like all the other screws. Unscrew that one screw and the intire shoe rack upened up like a door to another closet. It was very clever.
    That's exactly what I'm talkin about.
    ~Nemo me impune lacessit~




  16. #16
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    I picked up my safe tonight. Fortunately a buddy just happened to be around when it came time for unloading. I had devised a plan to unload it myself, but I probably would have ended up failing or injuring myself without help. I built a ramp and we used a winching strap to pull it out of the back of my tahoe.

    After unpacking and inspecting I found that a disproportionate amount of weight resides in the door. I think Shuetzenman was right about the safe's construction. The good news is the safe door can be easily removed when the safe is open. This should make moving it upstairs much easier.

    I'm still not ready to position it yet though. Last fall I had some oak boards milled, and I'm planning to use these to build a platform for the safe. This should help distribute the load across a wider area, and allow me to put the safe flush against the wall by raising it over the base board. I'd like to plane the boards down and make a sanded and finished platform for the safe since its going in my bedroom. So I've got the safe, but it may be a few more weeks before I get it installed.

  17. #17
    Member bluzjamer's Avatar

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    First off let me say that any safe is better than no safe. Even though I hate to buy anything from Dick's I too bought a safe from them. On sale was going for a sentry 24 but they upgraded me for free to a 28 due to not having any 24's left.
    (None of them hold what they say they hold) Ok I had an Expedition at the time and three guys put it in for me. I thought it was like 350 lbs when I saw the weight on the box beng over 600# I nearly fell over. I got home and had to push it out by getting inside the front and levering it back. After a lot of grunting I got it off and onto my driveway. Now I had to tilt it up to get the handtruck under it and strapped to it. Finally did that and tried to tilt it to drag it into the garage. Well I'm a big guy and when I got up on it to tilt it wouldn't even budge. My wife is watching in terror the whole time. Well I finally got it to tilt but damn if I could stop it from tilting and it and the hand truck landed right on top of me and I'm flopping around like a fish out of water trying to get out from under it. Wife is panicing asking if she should dial 911, I said yeah ask them to send two big guys. I managed to get out from under the package and dragged it into the garage where it now lives. Bolted it to the floor. What a horror show, get it deivered next time. See the you tube vids of how the pros do it, one guy with a powered stair climber hand truck. Don't even break a sweat. Should have bought the 48 gun and had it delivered.
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