Black powder rifle and pistol recommendation.

[Solidus-snake]

I am thinking about getting a black powder rifle and pistol.

What are some good recommendations for brands and types of each?

Not wanting to spend a whole lotta money on these but want something dependablle. Mainly interested in the pistol right now.

[Richard Simmons]

For a pistol I would recommend a Remington 1858 New Army pattern with the steel frame.

Something like this from Uberti

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/new_a...and_police.php

[alismith]

My first recommendation would be the Ruger Old Army in SS. They may be a little on the pricey side compared to other BP revolvers, but they will last well enough into your great grandkid's generation.

If you prefer the Remington BP revolver, try to get one in SS, with target sights.

.44/.45 caliber is a great caliber to start with.

As far as rifles go, if you are a traditionalist, then check out rifles from CVA, Traditions, Dixie Gun Works (these tend to be a little more costly than other company's), or Thompson Center. Go for .50 caliber as that is the current "standard" caliber. My understanding is that the western parts of the US seem to prefer the .54 caliber, while the eastern side prefers the .50. All I know is that around where I live, MD and DE areas, it's harder to find .54 caliber rifles and balls. .50 caliber accessories are everywhere.

My personal preference is the CVA Hawken style rifles as they just tend to fit my hands better than the others do, but that's just me. All the rifles mentioned above are fantastic.

Before you buy a rifle, check out the rate of twist. If you're going to shoot mostly round balls, then 1:68 is the best choice. If your'e going to shoot mostly conicals and sabots, then you want a fast twist (1:28 or 1:32). If you're not sure which you'll shoot the most, or if your'e going to shoot both, then go for a 1:48 rate as this rate will handle both ball and conical-shaped fairly well.

If you are strapped for money, as I am most of the time, check out pawn shops and gun shops that take trade-ins. Usually, they'll have one of two, used, BP rifles for sale at more reasonable prices. Also, check out the classified ads as there are usually some listed there at reasonable prices.

If you want a good hunting rifle-pistol combo, then get a .50 caliber rifle and something like Traditions' .50 caliber pistol. It's a single shot pistol, but it takes the same ball as the the rifle and it's legal for deer in most states.

[mriddick]

For a modern hunting rig it's hard to beat the new CVA Omega with the quick remove breech plug, in stainless I think you can have a BP rifle that should outlast the average hunter. For a fun pistol the 1858 is about as good as it gets for the money IMO, the Ruger is built beefier but also will cost you 2X the amount...

[Solidus-snake]

Is Pietta any count? The ones im seeing from them are a good bit cheaper than Uberti's.

Also any idea about the 1862 police or 1860 Army model as far as durability? I always liked the looks of those better, something about the sleek profile gets me.

[alismith]

Is Pietta any count? The ones im seeing from them are a good bit cheaper than Uberti's.

Also any idea about the 1862 police or 1860 Army model as far as durability? I always liked the looks of those better, something about the sleek profile gets me.

I haven't noticed any difference between the Pietta's or Uberti's. Both are built well and shoot well.

I have the 1862 Pocket Police model. It's a sleek little handgun and is one of the best looking ones I have.

I, too, prefer the looks of the Army over the Remington, but the Rems are much stronger because of the top strap. However, I've been shooting BP since 1968 and I've never worn any of my Armies out, so go with what you prefer. Anyway, modern steel is much stronger than what they used 175 years ago. I have an 1860 Army in SS and it is absolutely beautiful.

[mriddick]

The 58's are stronger, but for most it's tough to shoot out a 1860 or 61 regardless IMO. I had an 1850 I must of put 5000 rds through that by the end was very loose, I was a very dedicated BP revolver shooter to get that many through it. I'm happy with my Pietta 1858, I've heard the earlier models weren't that great but for the last 15 years or so I think the quality is on par with the others.

[Flinter]

The 58's are stronger, but for most it's tough to shoot out a 1860 or 61 regardless IMO. I had an 1850 I must of put 5000 rds through that by the end was very loose, I was a very dedicated BP revolver shooter to get that many through it. I'm happy with my Pietta 1858, I've heard the earlier models weren't that great but for the last 15 years or so I think the quality is on par with the others.

I shot a Colt Navy loose in less than 100 rounds. It was one of the signature series ones. Sent it back to Colt, they crushed the slot in the cylinder pin a bit and sent it back. I swore after that I'd only buy Uberti revolvers.

Pietta used to be crap. Sort of like the Spanish rifles that were imported in the 70's. I have no idea what their quality is like today, but it was so bad in the past that I've never felt like rolling the dice on that particular brand.

If it were me, I'd buy a single shot pistol and a rifle in the same caliber. Lyman is a good deal for the money.

[slamfire51]

I shot BP years ago, and I have one piece of advice. DO NOT buy a brass frame revolver for anything other than a show piece.
The will get loose very fast.
The Ruger, 1858's, and the 1860 are good choices.

[Schuetzenman]

.45 caliber will kill deer just fine. AS mentioned the 1858 Remington New Model Army revolvers are the most available yet strong in design revolvers. The Ruger revolver is very fine, though not a copy of any historical arm.

For a commercial built BP rifle Thompson Center or maybe one of the Lyman rifles would be my advise. I remember CVA from the 1970's and they were pure shit back then. They may have cleaned up their act, don't know haven't looked at one in decades.

Except for a repo Brown Bess, all the BP rifles I've ever had I built myself from components I selected; Siler or L&R locks, Douglas, H&H or Green Mountain barrels.

[O.S.O.K.]

I have both the 1858 and 1860 models along with an 1851 - I've owned both Uberti and Pietta and really I would say that the quality is about even these days.

You have to determine just what you want in terms of features.

Don't get one with a brass frame if you want to do any shooting above pop gun levels.

As stated, the Ruger Old Army is the strongest, most modern design and will allow you to load it to the highest pressure to get the best performanc in terms of energy. They are also more expensive but you can find them on gunbroker pretty steady.

The 1858 design is the strongest of the traditional reproductions. It has the top strap and is also the easiest to take down (just drop the loading lever a little and slide the cylinder pin forward to release the cylinder). This makes them the quickest to reload if you have a spare loaded cylinder, it can be switched out pretty fast. They can be had with adjustable sights (target model). They come in 36 and 44 calibers.

The 1860 Colt (44) design along with the 1851 (36) design are the best "pointing" designs. They are considered better looking by most. Their sights are rather rudimentary and there are no target (adjustable sight) models offered. They are harder to take down - you must tap out the wedge pin that holds the barrel on and remove the barrel to free the cylinder. Both models can be had in 44 or 36 - 1861 police (36) and 1851 rebel (44).

There are other designes to consider if you are just after a fun range day. The Colt Walker and Dragoons for example. They are heavy 4.5 and 4 lb.s respecively and are both the same basic design as far as take-down as the 1860. Both are 44 calibers but they can handle 60 and 50 grains of bp! The Walker was considered the most powerful handgun made up until the advent of the .357 Magnum.

I would check Cabelas as they often have sales on thier Pietta revolvers. Sometimes really good sales.

[this sale ends today - the $20 off part] basically pays for the shipping.

There's one right now. $20 off orders $150 or more: 1858 Remington $180:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104503680



$180 is an excellent price on a new Pietta 1858 - really you won't find any better other than somebody selling one used.

They have the shorter barrel version for the same price and there are other deals on other models.

[gpwasr10]

Shop around for a Used Old Army, they are AMAZING guns. I also like T/C's side locks.

[Solidus-snake]

Thanks for all the input guys, when I get the funds ill be looking at one of the 1858 models, im really liking the idea of changeable cylinders (Loved Pale Rider growing up).

[slamfire51]

After all these years, I suppose all powders used in BP guns are still corrosive.

Yes/no?

[Schuetzenman]

After all these years, I suppose all powders used in BP guns are still corrosive.

Yes/no?

Yes as far as I know they are. Pyrodex is and of course real black powder is.

[Flinter]

Yes as far as I know they are. Pyrodex is and of course real black powder is.

I'll second that. There have been a few companies that claimed theirs wasn't, but those companies are out of business to the best of my knowledge.

Don't let the corrosive nature turn you off to muzzleloading. I've shot it for almost 30 years now and never did anything other than clean the barrel with tapwater.

[slamfire51]

Yes as far as I know they are. Pyrodex is and of course real black powder is.

I was shooting black powder when Pyrodex first came out. Never used it because of the hang fires it caused.

You would think a powder company could formulate a low pressure powder that's not corrosive.

[alismith]

I remember CVA from the 1970's and they were pure shit back then. They may have cleaned up their act, don't know haven't looked at one in decades.

Of all the rifles I own, the CVA's have performed the best for me. I rabbit hunted with a CVA Trapper shotgun, with interchangeable chokes, for about 10 years. I never used anything except that and it never failed to deliver. When we first started the hunt in the mornings, the "new" guys would laugh when they saw me drag out that shotgun and load all the possibles on my shoulders and belt. But, most of the time, I was top dog by the end of the hunt. They never laughed at the shotgun again. I used 90 grains of FFg powder behind a full load of 7 1/2 shot. When the smoke cleared, there was almost always a dead rabbit waiting for me to pick up.

My back-up pistol was a .69 cal. (roughly a 13-14 gauge shotgun) Charleville (Sp.?) Flintlock pistol loaded with 50 grains of FFg powder. Whenever two rabbits were running at the same time, and I fired the shotgun, I had that one ready while I was reloading. Only fired it once and I missed, but it was fun!

I was able to acquire a .69 cal flintlock shotgun to go with that pistol, but haven't shot that one yet.

Once you get into BP, a whole new world opens up and the possibilities are almost endless as to the calibers and types of firearms available. My BP caliber range goes from .22 up to 4 ga. and all of the firearms I have are shootable, if I so desire.