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Thread: Simplest tube gun or pistol caliber carbine design?

  1. #1
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011

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    Question Simplest tube gun or pistol caliber carbine design?

    I've been kicking around a few ideas about what type of weapon could by easily manufactured in a bad situation. This got me to wondering what's the simplest possible pistol caliber carbine? I'm inclined to think the sten gun is about as simple as it gets. But I know there are other comparable weapons. Could anyone share some suggestions? Bonus points if you have schematics.

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    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    What was the throw away one shot pistol we were dropping into france? That looked pretty simple. Probably jennings stole the design..... LOL

    here you go:
    http://forums.filefront.com/fh-off-t...le-pistol.html Liberator

    I apologize, you meant rifle/carbine.
    Last edited by 1 Patriot-of-many; 02-26-2012 at 02:29 AM.

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    I'd also wondered about the simplest handgun design, but decided a practical handgun would be far too complex. I think the liberator lacks a few important features...like rifling. BTW, I found out the liberator concept made a comeback in viet nam. Basically it was the same idea but in 9mm and called the deer gun it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_gun. Like the liberator it doesn't look like it was every of much use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dafapa View Post
    I'd also wondered about the simplest handgun design, but decided a practical handgun would be far too complex. I think the liberator lacks a few important features...like rifling. BTW, I found out the liberator concept made a comeback in viet nam. Basically it was the same idea but in 9mm and called the deer gun it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_gun. Like the liberator it doesn't look like it was every of much use.
    Think they would be a good use to gain yourself a rifle or subgun in a close situation when you don't have one.

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    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    Think they would be a good use to gain yourself a rifle or subgun in a close situation when you don't have one.
    My understanding is it wasn't really used much in WWII because the nazis would conduct reprisals against the civilian population for any nazi troops killed. That and most of them were recovered from the air drops by the germans. The deer gun never got used because viet nam turned into a real war. I do kind of like the idea of making it from an aluminum casting for the deer gun. I wonder how the trigger mechanism worked?

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    Team GunsNet Platinum 12/2012 l921428x's Avatar

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    Rubber bands and nails?
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    but you cannot compress me.

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    as of it, we have so little.

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  7. #7
    There are some simple designs you can literally piece together walking through a hardware store (just a few pieces to shape or make) however with the ease you can buy unregistered firearms now it would be much better to put back a few inexpensive firearms in places you think you might need them.

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    riddicks right ,just buy a couple old 22 rifles,bolts preferred as the usually dont hav e the issues of autoloaders

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    Senior Member Silicon Wolverine's Avatar

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    there is a book floating around called "expedient homemade firearms: the 9mm SMG" that details the building of an open bolt 9mm SMG from materials that can be obtained virtually anywhere. the only specific tool needed is a reamer for chambering the barrel. obviousy this would be illegal to make today, but if you laid back the tools and materials now, when aws didnt matter anymore you would have what you needed.

    ETA oh and i found the complete book on scribd as well if you want to look at it (for academic purposes only).

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/ex...e-instructions

    SW
    Last edited by Silicon Wolverine; 02-26-2012 at 08:56 AM.

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    Senior Member Penguin's Avatar

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    I have never messed with the sten how ever I have a sterling and, that thing is so simple that it makes the AK look complex. This is the semi-auto version. I can only imagine how much more simple the orginal open bolt version would be. It would seem to me after looking at this gun that the hardest part of making an open bolt submachine gun would be rifiling the barrel and making the mags. Other than that it would seem to be a simple operation if you have some tools and basic skills.
    Doobie Doobie Doo..

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    Guns Network Contributor 04/2013 El Laton Caliente's Avatar

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    When you can buy a Mosin and a case of ammo for >$300 the question is why build a zip gun? I could see a Sten or something, but I'd start with a parts kit and 80% receiver.

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    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    If you can make sure that you have the needed tools to make such, then you can make sure and have good quality firearms and ammo for them too.

    Now if you are thinking that you'll be put out and then be able to gather the tools and then would need to know how to make the guns.... you 'd still have to have some ammo or be able to make it. Might be black powder.... which can be made of course but you need to procure things like sulfure and be able to manufacture the potasium nitrate and charcoal. A muzzle loading rifle isn't too hard to cobble but the ignition system is quite a bit much harder - even a flintlock reqires the forging of tempered springs.

    Much better to have the guns/ammo stashed ahead of time. Even a NEF Handi rifle in .357 Mag with a box of ammo would put you at a very good advantage in a really bad environment. That's about the cheapest combo I can think of - and it breaks down to about a 28" package.
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  13. #13
    I've seen all sorts of witty designs in "field expedient weapons" field manuals.

  14. #14
    The "simplest" would be a type of zip gun.

    Muzzle loading BP design would be the simplest of those.

    We no longer depend on flint for a reliable spark these days, so ignition sytems can be had from spare springs or rigged up batteries.

    As for chemical propellants, an enterpising sort can find all your basic ingerients for a pre-industrial armory lying around the house. You can even re-create a couple of the more modern, forbidden terrors of WWI by accident if your not careful with your cleaning products.

    Heck, the worst domestic terror bombing in our nations history was made from diesel fuel and artificial poop.

    Even if you didn't have the sulfur carbon and antimony lying around, there are many other ways to send material downrange fast. Spud gun anyone?

    On the more complex end, there is gas powered projectiles. Think scaled up bb gun. Not terribly great facing off against soldiers with real firearms, but relatively quite, and suitable for a sneaky close range engagement of the hit and run variety.

    Improvised weapons are all around you. I don't even carry weapons aymore. I carry a nice stiff pen.

    ...wait, why hasn't anybody mentioned the bow and arrow yet?

  15. #15
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silicon Wolverine View Post
    there is a book floating around called "expedient homemade firearms: the 9mm SMG" that details the building of an open bolt 9mm SMG from materials that can be obtained virtually anywhere. the only specific tool needed is a reamer for chambering the barrel. obviousy this would be illegal to make today, but if you laid back the tools and materials now, when aws didnt matter anymore you would have what you needed.

    ETA oh and i found the complete book on scribd as well if you want to look at it (for academic purposes only).

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/ex...e-instructions

    SW
    Thanks, that's exactly the type of information I'm looking for.

    I've also dug up complete machining plans for a sten gun. I'm primarily interested in something semi-automatic, but I would think the receivers for a FA and semi version of a gun would be virtually identical. In order to go from an open bolt FA to semi I know you'd at least have to change the FCG somehow, and add in a spring loaded firing pin.

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