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Thread: Help needed!

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    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    Help needed!

    Unfortunately I have received part of my inheritance, within this bundle of joy I have become the new owner of 4 rifles. Although they are not in mint condition I plan on full restoration, with the amount of knowledge inside this forum I come to you in need. All 4 rifles are from different time periods ranging from the 1700's through WW2, the markings and stamps throughout the 4 are few and far between. Before flooding the forum with a mass of photos I decided to post to see if anyone had interest in helping me identify them.

    So far I am certain one is an original Kentucky Rifle, it has been appraised before. As for the other 3:
    #1: Stamped "1918" "OFFICINA COSTRUZIONE (the remaining is not able to be seen)" inside the stamp is a crest and "ROMA". On the other side of the stock there is what appears to be "O or D R" followed by 6196. All matching numbers throughout with 6196, although the barrel has an oval and inside "BRESCIA"
    #2: Has no stamps on the stock but on the barrel you can make out "7.93" and on the trunion "7" "CE" "44" "Mod. 98" the serial is 2192 again all matching.
    Last but not least is another flintlock which I am positive is just a show piece due to the barrel being stamped "JAPAN" lol but the above rifles are both bolt action, they are the main concern.

    Thanks in advance for the help, I know without photos it is difficult, just trying to spark someones interest.

  2. #2
    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    Number one sounds like a Carcano - that's an Italian bolt gun - caliber would be 6.5x52 Carcano. There were also some made in larger caliber - forget the actual caliber for those.

    Number two sounds like a German 98K Mauser.

    Pictures would help a lot and you will find that there are several on the board that can help nail this down for you.

    Would like to see the other two as well - I can steer you to another board where there are muzzle loader experts that can help you more with those. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com
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    Site Admin & **Team Gunsnet Silver 12/2012** Richard Simmons's Avatar

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    Question

    Does #1 look like the rifle in this link?

    http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=6416594
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    Team GunsNet Gold 07/2012 / Super Moderator Gunreference1's Avatar

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    I agree with O.S.O.K. Rifle #1 is probably a Model 91 Carcano chambered in 6.5x52mm Carcano. the 1918 marking will be the year of manufacture. Brescia was problably the original manufacturer and Roma rebuilt the rifle at some point in the. Rifle #2 is some variant of the Model 98 Mauser.

    Steve
    After today, it's all historical.

  5. #5
    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    Did not expect a response this fast, but yes it does resemble the one in the auction although minor differences. As for the 98k, it is almost exactly the same without the Nazi stamps or any German lettering/stamps. You guys have been more than helpful, if anyone would like to see photos I can post them here or email them to you. Thank you so much for the fast response. O.S.O.K. I will post all 4 here with a general photo, if you or anyone would like to see certain shots/angles feel free to ask.

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    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    Cool - looking forward to seeing them.
    ~Nemo me impune lacessit~




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    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    There ya go, will upload the flintlocks in a bit, also I failed to mention an air rifle that was in the mix. It's old the stock is synthetic and broken but it has been in the family since purchase. Enjoy!

    PS: Any helpful hints on removing the cancer from these beasts along with restorations would be beyond helpful.

    Drew

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    Moderator & Team Gunsnet Platinum 07/2011 O.S.O.K.'s Avatar

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    Italian Vetterli - I think it fired a 11.2mm Swiss black powder cartridge but I may be wrong. Second is definately a German 98k.

    In order to restore these I would say to get good dissasembly information/directions and then use some light oil and a stiff bristled synthetic brush on the metal. Boiled linseed oil for the wood - very, very fine steel wool applied very lightly.
    Last edited by O.S.O.K.; 03-21-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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    Senior Member mriddick's Avatar

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    IMO oil them, use nothing harsher then a rag and keep them as is, resist the urge to "restore or pretty" them up too much. The more patina the better as far as value tends to go.

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    Site Admin & **Team Gunsnet Silver 12/2012** Richard Simmons's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamer View Post



    Thanks for posting the pics. From the markings in your description I thought this was what it was. The auction I linked is pretty old so I don't know if it's reflective of your rifles value then or now. Both this and the 98 are pretty interesting pieces. Congratulations and thank you for sharing.
    Gunsnet member since 1999
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    wwooooww

    incredible things

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    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    There are the two flintlocks, the first being a TOWER "Brown Bess" replica. Both of these rifles were part of a larger collection that was separated when my grandfathers home was broken into many years ago. Although they are the only two left out of twelve, they mean the world to me. My family has been involved in this country's heritage since the boat landed many moons ago, patriotism has been passed down for many generations and I plan on passing it to my children as well. Both rifles you see were still in use until 1990 in reenactments throughout Massachusetts. That's enough about my family twig, no need to bore the people of this thread, I hope you enjoy them.

    Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    IMO oil them, use nothing harsher then a rag and keep them as is, resist the urge to "restore or pretty" them up too much. The more patina the better as far as value tends to go.
    I agree 100% with this. Do no damage to the value in order to make it look clean/good to you!!!!!!!!!
    While no one ever listens to me,
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  18. #18
    Member TheDreamer's Avatar

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    Value is a concern, but compared to functionality it is minor in scale. Really want to get them all back into firing condition. The Italian has the bolt welded shut, the story goes "that was the only way they could ship it to this country at that time" seeing how this was before the de-milling "cut it up with a torch" came to be (this being what I was told by my grandfather) but all ideas aside I would love to get them all fully functional. Other than the Italian, the "Brown Bess" is locked up as well as the 98, although the Kentucky will pull back double lock and fire without thinking twice, no problems with the flash pan or any moving parts "so far". Really wish I had someone around to get a first hand teaching of bringing them back to life, unfortunately in this day in age I am using the internet for everything. Love the info guys, thank you.

    Drew

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    I don't know where you are but if you do some looking around I am sure you can find a gunsmith who will care as much as you. Just for the I did it attitude.
    Good luck Drew and keep us updated.
    While no one ever listens to me,
    I am constantly being told to be quiet.

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  20. #20
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamer View Post




    In my opinion this is not an Antique. The pactch box looks too good and resembles one I've seen on reproduction weapons. Also the barrel is quite unusual being octagon to round and I don't see any taper to a muzzle flare out in diameter. The straight round after octagon is very unusual and I have seen it in modern repo barrels sold by Dixi Gun Works. Next the two piece stock with the splice band of brass behind the rear ramrod thimble. That is typical of CVA made muzzle loaders from the 1980's. Guns like that were often kits and they couldn't ship the stock in the box in one piece so they had the forearm as two pices and the brass band was there to cover up the joint. The lock looks like a repo lock as well.

    The Brown Bess Musket, the muzzle loader without the patch box on the buttstock is also probably a modern reproduction. It looks too good to be an antique despite the surface rust. Looks like these were stored in a damp basement with no oil on them. Now such repo Muskets run over $700 these days in new condition. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/ Here is a link to Dixie Gun Works web site. You can look around in here and probably find some identification and info pics.

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