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Thread: The Reason America is in Trouble

  1. #21
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkalashnikov View Post
    The largest and fastest-growing voting bloc in my area are illegal immigrants from south of our borders. Their US-born kids are of course, considered American citizens. And these citizens will predominately vote Democrat, many of them for the reasons listed above.
    Besides the financial reason you provide why would you want to vote for someone who believes that your parents should be here legally to make you a citizen? The liberal misinterpretation of good intentioned laws is having, and will continue to have, a very negative affect on our country. And the longer it is allowed to stay this way, the harder it will be to fix. In some areas, I think it is already broken beyond repair.

    This is why we need to elect the more conservative candidate in each election, even if we don't agree with every stance they take. The way we got where we are was by the liberals putting up slightly more liberal candidates each cycle. There is no way President Obama, with his amazingly liberal take on things, would have been elected 100 year, 50 years, or even 20 years ago (maybe 20, Jimmy Carter got elected), but the liberals were patient and slowly changed the countries ideas. For our country to become more conservative will take the same patient determination. And it may take even longer to swing us right than it did to swing us left because on the one hand you start giving people things, and on the other you take those things away that they take for granted now. Such as free income for not actually working.
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  2. #22
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2015 mrkalashnikov's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    Besides the financial reason you provide why would you want to vote for someone who believes that your parents should be here legally to make you a citizen? The liberal misinterpretation of good intentioned laws is having, and will continue to have, a very negative affect on our country. And the longer it is allowed to stay this way, the harder it will be to fix. In some areas, I think it is already broken beyond repair.
    I think anyone living with our borders should be here LEGALLY, as in they went through the same immigration process my great-grandparents did when they emmigrated from the British Isles and Ireland.

    The fact that we have had an de facto "open borders" policy and so-called Sanctuary Cities (like the huge one I'm close to) allowing, if not actively encouraging, mass illegal migration into the US for decades now...steams me to no end. I've stated here repeatedly over the years I'm not anti-immigration. I AM anti-criminal, which is exactly what the people are who sneak into our country, flaunt our laws, and in many cases even scam the system as depicted above, are...simply because they know they can get away with it, or that they delusionally believe they're somehow "entitled" to do so.

    The Democrat/Progressive/Socialists in America have been pandering to people like this for the last 45 years or so now. They know if they continue to promise free entitlement $$$$ to the non-productive, the criminal, and the something-for-nothing crowd, that "We The (real taxpaying-working-law-abiding) People" will continue to shell out for the ever-growing tab. Until at least there is some kind of drastic reversal of the trend.

    And with the re-election of Obama (or for that matter Mittens) that reversal is unlikely.

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    I've read several comments in this thread, that rub me the wrong way, just for their hypocrisy. Hear me out, just for a second, and then maybe you'll get where I'm coming from.

    Conservatives don't like abortion, and they don't like Welfare. Now, I can understand their dislike for these ideas taken separately. Yet, at the same time, I don't think these can be separated. I would think that the more abortions allowed, would mean less mouths suckling the teat. Follow me? I would rather my tax dollars be better spent on decreasing the amount of welfare recipients, by paying for an abortion, than paying someone to raise another leech on the taxpayers dime. An abortion costs what? An eighteen year food/housing/medical expense bill or a $200.00 procedure every other year.

    Personally, I don't care if a mother has an abortion, that's between her and her doctor, and God. It's not my place, the governments place, or some religious groups place to interfere.

    I also don't like paying people to breed, just to be unproductive members of society. Most illegals here, are here to work, and they do work. But that in itself doesn't justify them being granted citizenship, they need to do it like my grandparents did it.. Get In Line! Immigration Reform is the lie the Democrats like to use around election time. The Dream Act, is another of those lies, and misguided programs.

    As far as Unemployment goes, you have to work to be able to collect UI, and you have to seek work to continue getting it. I'd rather have a job though, since UI doesn't pay enough to live on. So, where are the "Job Creators" that have received all these tax breaks for the last 12 years? This is the line from the Republicans, that lower taxes on Corporations create jobs. Which is a lie unto itself, as any business man will tell you. Supply and demand create jobs.

    So, in essence, BOTH Party's haven't lived up to their talk. Both Party's lied to us. Both Party's will continue to lie to us, because we let them get away with it. Let's find some middle ground to stand on and stop playing the Extremes, because all the extremes do is what they were intended to do. DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    As far as Unemployment goes, you have to work to be able to collect UI, and you have to seek work to continue getting it. I'd rather have a job though, since UI doesn't pay enough to live on. So, where are the "Job Creators" that have received all these tax breaks for the last 12 years? This is the line from the Republicans, that lower taxes on Corporations create jobs. Which is a lie unto itself, as any business man will tell you. Supply and demand create jobs.
    You do realize our corporate taxes are the highest in the world, right?
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Dr. Gonzo GED's Avatar

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    I think you are coming dangerously close to making sense there WOD.

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    Yes I do hear that our corporate tax rate is the highest, yet most still are able to post profits every quarter. So... what was your response intended to allude to? Not to mention that these same Corporations are sitting on huge stockpiles of cash, because they're afraid and uncertain. Death and Taxes.. as the saying goes. The fact that they also enjoy more loopholes for getting around paying these highest taxes, makes me wonder why we even bother taxing them.

    I can't make sense, when dealing with nonsensical policies or ideologies. That would be an exercise in insanity, and ultimately..futility. There is just so many BROKEN items, where does one begin?
    Last edited by WOD; 04-27-2012 at 03:58 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member mriddick's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    I've read several comments in this thread, that rub me the wrong way, just for their hypocrisy. Hear me out, just for a second, and then maybe you'll get where I'm coming from.

    Conservatives don't like abortion, and they don't like Welfare. Now, I can understand their dislike for these ideas taken separately. Yet, at the same time, I don't think these can be separated. I would think that the more abortions allowed, would mean less mouths suckling the teat. Follow me? I would rather my tax dollars be better spent on decreasing the amount of welfare recipients, by paying for an abortion, than paying someone to raise another leech on the taxpayers dime. An abortion costs what? An eighteen year food/housing/medical expense bill or a $200.00 procedure every other year.

    Personally, I don't care if a mother has an abortion, that's between her and her doctor, and God. It's not my place, the governments place, or some religious groups place to interfere.

    I also don't like paying people to breed, just to be unproductive members of society. Most illegals here, are here to work, and they do work. But that in itself doesn't justify them being granted citizenship, they need to do it like my grandparents did it.. Get In Line! Immigration Reform is the lie the Democrats like to use around election time. The Dream Act, is another of those lies, and misguided programs.

    As far as Unemployment goes, you have to work to be able to collect UI, and you have to seek work to continue getting it. I'd rather have a job though, since UI doesn't pay enough to live on. So, where are the "Job Creators" that have received all these tax breaks for the last 12 years? This is the line from the Republicans, that lower taxes on Corporations create jobs. Which is a lie unto itself, as any business man will tell you. Supply and demand create jobs.

    So, in essence, BOTH Party's haven't lived up to their talk. Both Party's lied to us. Both Party's will continue to lie to us, because we let them get away with it. Let's find some middle ground to stand on and stop playing the Extremes, because all the extremes do is what they were intended to do. DIVIDE AND CONQUER.
    The federal right to abortion destroys the Constitution by promoting the idea that judges get to read anything they want into it at will. Also few things are a elitist sounding as assuming everyone born in poverty is only worthy of death or that being poor means they will only add to the welfare rolls.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Dr. Gonzo GED's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    I can't make sense, when dealing with nonsensical policies or ideologies. That would be an exercise in insanity, and ultimately..futility. There is just so many BROKEN items, where does one begin?
    Taking a few deep breaths and concentrating on lowering blood preassure. If we get all stroked out by the circus music then the wackadoodles have won!

  9. #29
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    The Reason America Is In Trouble, is that we fail to learn from our mistakes, or the mistakes made by other countries. Since we're also getting our asses kicked in Sciences and Math by third world countries also tells me, we don't want to learn period. When the Butter Dance is considered art, well.. that's just plain wrong!

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2015 mrkalashnikov's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    I've read several comments in this thread, that rub me the wrong way, just for their hypocrisy. Hear me out, just for a second, and then maybe you'll get where I'm coming from.

    Conservatives don't like abortion, and they don't like Welfare. Now, I can understand their dislike for these ideas taken separately. Yet, at the same time, I don't think these can be separated. I would think that the more abortions allowed, would mean less mouths suckling the teat. Follow me? I would rather my tax dollars be better spent on decreasing the amount of welfare recipients, by paying for an abortion, than paying someone to raise another leech on the taxpayers dime. An abortion costs what? An eighteen year food/housing/medical expense bill or a $200.00 procedure every other year.

    Personally, I don't care if a mother has an abortion, that's between her and her doctor, and God. It's not my place, the governments place, or some religious groups place to interfere.

    I also don't like paying people to breed, just to be unproductive members of society. Most illegals here, are here to work, and they do work. But that in itself doesn't justify them being granted citizenship, they need to do it like my grandparents did it.. Get In Line! Immigration Reform is the lie the Democrats like to use around election time. The Dream Act, is another of those lies, and misguided programs.

    As far as Unemployment goes, you have to work to be able to collect UI, and you have to seek work to continue getting it. I'd rather have a job though, since UI doesn't pay enough to live on. So, where are the "Job Creators" that have received all these tax breaks for the last 12 years? This is the line from the Republicans, that lower taxes on Corporations create jobs. Which is a lie unto itself, as any business man will tell you. Supply and demand create jobs.

    So, in essence, BOTH Party's haven't lived up to their talk. Both Party's lied to us. Both Party's will continue to lie to us, because we let them get away with it. Let's find some middle ground to stand on and stop playing the Extremes, because all the extremes do is what they were intended to do. DIVIDE AND CONQUER.
    I pretty much agree with everything you've stated.

    I consider myself to the right of the political scale but I've always considered abortion a personal issue which the State has NO say in.

    And yes, many supposed Republican voters are responsible for turning a blind eye towards the huge influx of low-paid, illegal slave labor in this country, since THEY own the companies which employ same.

  11. #31
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2014 El Jefe's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Yes I do hear that our corporate tax rate is the highest, yet most still are able to post profits every quarter. So... what was your response intended to allude to? Not to mention that these same Corporations are sitting on huge stockpiles of cash, because they're afraid and uncertain. Death and Taxes.. as the saying goes. The fact that they also enjoy more loopholes for getting around paying these highest taxes, makes me wonder why we even bother taxing them.

    I can't make sense, when dealing with nonsensical policies or ideologies. That would be an exercise in insanity, and ultimately..futility. There is just so many BROKEN items, where does one begin?
    Taxing business is counter productive. Giving money to the Fed is simply pissing it away. Have another glass of Democrat kookaid, you obviously enjoy it.
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    My BP is fine Gonzo, I'm just saying... it's staggering how stupid our so-called leaders are.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Dr. Gonzo GED's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    Also few things are a elitist sounding as assuming everyone born in poverty is only worthy of death or that being poor means they will only add to the welfare rolls.
    I dont think this is the actual message presented by pro choice supporters.

    Someone can be born into porverty and still be housed, fed, cared for, educated, and raised well enough to better themselves. It's a hard road, but it can happen. I'm a good example of this. I was born in a single wide trailer. I took my first regular part time gig at 14 to pay for my own food. It's taken 32 years, but when I have children I may be able to provide a better life for them than I had growning up. Oh, I'll make them work as hard as my folks made me work, but I'm hoping they won't have to do it to avoid starvation like I did.

    The right to choose is for people who cannot support the child. It is specifically there so that we don't have a bunch of families completely dependant on the welfare state. How bad would our "entitlement" culture be with every aborted fetus in foster care or welfare homes? Think about that.

    Quality of life, not quantity of life. They have unlimited "quantity" of life in the third world. It's not working out so good for them.

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    Jefferson, really? You seem to be seeing only what you choose to, ok, it's this blind obedience to an ideology left or right, that will crush us all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Jefferson, really? You seem to be seeing only what you choose to, ok, it's this blind obedience to an ideology left or right, that will crush us all.
    Says the guy hyperventilating about abortion and corporate taxes. Roe vs Wade is the law of the land, arguing over that is pretty stupid. You whining over how business is taxed just reeks of self interest, not once did you mention cutting spending. You know nothing of how business works or what is and isn't good for them, so you should probably speak to something you do understand, whatever that might be.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member mriddick's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo GED View Post
    I dont think this is the actual message presented by pro choice supporters.
    I would rather my tax dollars be better spent on decreasing the amount of welfare recipients, by paying for an abortion, than paying someone to raise another leech on the taxpayers dime.
    I was addressing the specific comment quoted, I don't see how you read that any other way then abort more today so we rid ourselves of more welfare bums tomorrow. Still though the philosophy that gives us the federal right to abortion is the same one that allows judges to read anything they want into the Constitution at will, which goes against constitutional conservationism.

  17. #37
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Since we're also getting our asses kicked in Sciences and Math by third world countries also tells me, we don't want to learn period. [/url]
    I think you kind of hit on the biggest problem facing the conservative movement right now, besides growing diversity in the American populace and the declining prominence of the older-aged white heterosexual male. More and more conservatives are finding themselves on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to respect for science and its institutions. I'm not talking about just climate change, but more and more contempt for science altogether, everything from the basic FACT of evolution by natural selection to things like stem-cell research and various other fields.

    For one reason or another, conservatives have pitted themselves against science and its secular ways, which alienates many independent/swing voters who appreciate what all science has to offer. Conservatives increasingly are being represented by the least educated, least informed, least willing to learn and consider new ideas, and more and more open disrespect of intellectuals.

    That's not a recipe for long-term political success, unless you want America to become an Idiocracy.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  18. #38
    Senior Member Dr. Gonzo GED's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    I was addressing the specific comment quoted, I don't see how you read that any other way then abort more today so we rid ourselves of more welfare bums tomorrow. Still though the philosophy that gives us the federal right to abortion is the same one that allows judges to read anything they want into the Constitution at will, which goes against constitutional conservationism.
    I see what you mean.

  19. #39
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkalashnikov View Post
    I pretty much agree with everything you've stated.

    I consider myself to the right of the political scale but I've always considered abortion a personal issue which the State has NO say in.
    The state has a say because it is killing a human being. The state has a right to say for the same reason the state as a right to say, know a duty to say, murder is wrong. The right to choose, except in very limited circumstances, is when the two adults decide to have sex. Of course the next arguement is always "what about rape, incest, or to protect the life of the mother". What percentage of abortions are carried out because of those three, very limited circumstances? We kill babies in this country for the purpose of birth control, not because of any high sounding moral argument. If it is alright to kill a baby for convenience before it is born, what about after? We have so seared our consciences that killing a baby is alright as long as it was not born yet that we now have people asking why we can't do it after it is born (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...iOsR_blog.html). Who is supposed to decide when it is alright to kill a child if not the state?
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

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    Agreed! Cutting spending would be awesome too! DHS would be an awesome start!
    Closing down a few bases around the world, and bringing the boys home to watch our borders, great!
    Stop feeding Pakistan and Afghanistan boatloads of taxpayer money, when they are double-dealing us all the way. Awesome!
    Bringing manufacturing back to the states, and employing Americans would be a great idea too!
    I know Roe V Wade is settled, but that doesn't stop Pols from bringing it up, to get elected. It's a medical procedure that.. as I said, is between the woman, her doctor, and her God. If more low income people were able to have this procedure when they needed it, we'd have less people suffering from poverty.
    I wasn't suggesting abortion as a low-income population control method Mrriddick.
    No, I'm not hyper-ventilating, Jefferson, thanks for your concern.
    You're right, I don't know anything about business, since I had two of them, and neither were successful, live and learn!

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