Wolf ammo sucks ass.

[FunkyPertwee]

I should've brought that and the SAR3 to test.... Maybe next time.

A guy I know has an SAR-3 and has run lots of Tula (budget line Wolf) with no issues.

[imanaknut]

A guy I know has an SAR-3 and has run lots of Tula (budget line Wolf) with no issues.

I know a guy who has an SAR-3 (me) and is lucky to get more than 30 rounds in a row of Tula polymer coated or Wolf polymer coated to fire and eject. That's why I take a 20 inch cleaning rod with me to the range, so I can slowly get rid of the case of Tula ply coated .223 I still have left.

The SAR-3 and Norinco 84S-1 never had problems with the lacquer coated stuff. Hard to believe an AK platform rifle would have issues with ammo, but that polymer coating works like glue as the chamber heats up.

And it does seem to be primarily a .223 thing.

[FunkyPertwee]

I know a guy who has an SAR-3 (me) and is lucky to get more than 30 rounds in a row of Tula polymer coated or Wolf polymer coated to fire and eject. That's why I take a 20 inch cleaning rod with me to the range, so I can slowly get rid of the case of Tula ply coated .223 I still have left.

The SAR-3 and Norinco 84S-1 never had problems with the lacquer coated stuff. Hard to believe an AK platform rifle would have issues with ammo, but that polymer coating works like glue as the chamber heats up.

And it does seem to be primarily a .223 thing.

I wonder if the difference is in the gun or the batch of ammo. While I never recommend Tula ammo, I have seen tula .223 fired hundreds of times from an SAR.

The sell the stuff at Wal-mart now-a-days. Unless you think its just a bad batch of ammo, maybe you should sell it. I don't like Tula but other people buy it.

[imanaknut]

Honestly, the reason I didn't originally say anything about the Tula ammo is I believe it is a bad batch. Several of the fail to eject rounds were stone cold when I pulled them out of the chamber, and a couple that did eject were caught by a friend who also remarked about being able to hang onto the round because they were cold.

The Tula was also noticeably quieter and had less recoil, so I am voting in my case on the case being underpowered.

On the other hand, the Wolf that stuck seemed very consistant, offering the expected sound on firing, just that the recoil was a little odd now and then, which was always followed by removing the mag, forcibly retracting the carrier assembly and using the cleaning rod to knock out the offending round.

What really surprised and frustrated me was that the SAR-3 I play with has fired well over 7000 rounds with no issues at all until I went from the lacquer ammo to the polymer stuff.

I also have used the Silver Bear ammo with no issues.

The same can be said for my Norinco, which has also fired a ton of ammo with no problems, and has been amazingly accurate. The reliability went to zero as soon as I started using polymer coated .223.

Sorry, but with the cost of ammo so outrageous it is not worth the hassles but is worth the few extra cents per round to use either Silver Bear .223, find lacquer ammo or even go to brass in my NATO compatible AKMs.

And to think, I complained when my favorite .223 brass rounds (Sellier & Bellot) went from $140 to $160 per case!

[NewbieAKguy]

Just to make sure I've got the facts right, imanaknut and 1-Patriot you two are talking about the "new" Wolf ammo black box that says WPA on box and no longer the older style with the pic of a wolf on it correct?

I don't buy polymer ammo. But thanks for the warning should I be tempted.

Anybody shoot russian steel cased ammo out of their ARs?

I hear Mini-14s eat it up like candy, at least the newest models.

But that some ARs like the steel, while others don't.

I have used and continue to shoot russian steel cased ammo out of my AR; this includes Wolf (the older black box with pic of a wolf on it) in 55gr and 62gr FMJs and HPs, and Brown Bear which of course is lacquer coated and not polymer coated. My AR is a mostly basic DPMS AP4 model with a pencil style 16" barrel; all stock except the magpul stock and foreened. I use the above mentioned ammo during my range's small 3-guns 99% of the time because I don't want to risk losing brass cases in the grass and losing them to other reloaders.

Depending on the course I'm shooting a max of around 40 rounds....unless I'm struggling . I admit that I'm lazy when it comes to cleaning my AR and have prob thoroughly cleaned it once within at least the last two years. I will oil up the bolt and BCG before shoots, but I'm not wanting to go overboard with cleaning because I'm kinda doing my own "run it until it pukes" test using nearly all steel cased ammo with some brass tossed in. I admit I'm not doing double taps as fast as I can pull the trigger or 30 round mag dumps on a regular basis, but I haven't had any issues with any of the steel cased ammo I've used so far.

A few buddies and I went in on a case of the newly labeled Wolf 'WPA' black box 62gr HPs. I haven't had chance to try them for groups/function yet, but I'm now curious to see the results. Buddy of mine ran some Tula through my AR without issue, but on occasion it won't keep bolt back on his AR after last round in mag.....his AR is 16" bull barrel and I forget parts make at the moment.

I did run my AR a bit faster last year at a two day rifle course using the same kind of ammo above, but still didn't have any issues. The extractor has yet to break and be replaced, but I admit that I haven't done a close inspection on it for wear, before or after.

Chalk everyone's experiences up to YMMV, with each brand of rifle and ammo, or bad ammo batch I guess?

[American Rage]

thanks for the reply

[gpwasr10]

My AR can be a little picky with the commie stuff... but my Mini eats it right up.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think I have a case of this stuff... I'll have to check when I re-store the stockpile... it's for my mini-14 though, so maybe no issues. I will make a point to check though - thanks for the heads-up.

And just to be clear - the other Wolf calibers seem to be just fine - I've had no issues with them - 7.62x39, 7.62x54 and 5.45x39.

[Nautilus]

I wont buy any of the poly cased stuff anymore. I at one time had 8k rounds of the wolf poly 7.62x39 and 4k rounds of the .223. I had a ton of FTF with the 7.62x39 about 50% of the time a second primer strike would make it fire. I didn't trust it anymore and some of it was given to friends, some of it was used as kickers in trade deals and the rest got bump fired. The .223 I got sick of having to knock stuck cases out of the chamber. I fired a bunch of it using a slide fire stock dumping mags... but if the rifle gets hot don't allow a round to sit in the chamber for long or it was guaranteed to be stuck.

I now buy only Golden Tiger 7.62 and brass cased stuff (normally Federal xm193) for the AR's.

[sevlex]

I've been running Wolf (old black box) & WPA in my Colt Hbar. No issues.

I think the problem with cycling has always been with folks using steel case with 16" barrels. The shorter gas system doesn't like the stuff.

[imanaknut]

Just to make sure I've got the facts right, imanaknut and 1-Patriot you two are talking about the "new" Wolf ammo black box that says WPA on box and no longer the older style with the pic of a wolf on it correct?

To get the facts correct, I am specifically talking about polymer coated .223 as being unusable even in my SAR-3 and my Norinco 84S-1 regardless as to which box it came out of, although all were the black box with the wolf picture and not the WPA. I have never tried the WPA and as long as they are polymer coated will not waste my money on them. Also giving me fits was the Tula marked ammo in the white box with black writing marked "hunting cartridges". I never had problems with the older lacquer coated rounds including firing them in one of my home-built AR-15s.

In the .223/5.56x45 I have constant issues with polymer coated, never had issues with lacquer coated.

[NewbieAKguy]

To get the facts correct, I am specifically talking about polymer coated .223 as being unusable even in my SAR-3 and my Norinco 84S-1 regardless as to which box it came out of, although all were the black box with the wolf picture and not the WPA. I have never tried the WPA and as long as they are polymer coated will not waste my money on them. Also giving me fits was the Tula marked ammo in the white box with black writing marked "hunting cartridges". I never had problems with the older lacquer coated rounds including firing them in one of my home-built AR-15s.

In the .223/5.56x45 I have constant issues with polymer coated, never had issues with lacquer coated.

Interesting. Like I mentioned before, that's the only Wolf ammo I've shot in my AR so far, with the new WPA stuff I got still sitting on a shelf......I really need to get to the range to try it out and see. Well, for what it's worth, if you're looking to get rid of whatever Wolf you have left I might be able to help you out...if the price is right of course .

[Helen Keller]

I've been reloading these polymer coated steel cases since they started making them boxer primed. Not an issue in my 11" piston Ar.
I haven't bought a wolf/tula product in about 3 years though.




The only shit I've had any gripe about is the snot sealed wolf that was around a few years back. Taking PB blaster to the range was a must.

[imanaknut]

Does anyone know when Wolf switched from lacquer to polymer coating? They aren't nice enough to mark the cases with anything other than bullet size and type, case material and boxer primer. All I know is I got it in Jan of 06. I date mark my cases to keep up with my rotation.

[NewbieAKguy]

That I don't know. If memory serves, I took a two day rifle class when I was still a small town LEO and used our firearms trainer personal RRA AR-15 and the ammo he gave me to use was all Wolf black box with the wolf pic on it, and I'm pretty sure the box said it was polymer coated then...this would have been mid-2007.

Does anyone know the difference between the Wolf black box stuff and their Military Classic line? I haven't tried the Mil. Classic stuff yet and I don't what the difference between the two is.

[imanaknut]

ok, just to get everyone on the same page, the Wolf polymer was in the good old all black box with the wolf picture on it. I went ahead and against my wants, opened the case of 05 Wolf .223 and it is in the exact same box with no markings as to lacquer or polymer. And against my even bigger desire, opened the plastic to get a box out and check it, and they are the old lacquer coated, so at least my last ever case of Wolf is usable.

[NewbieAKguy]

Sorry dude, didn't mean for you to open up your stashes. But if you'd like to sell the polymer stuff, I'm sure it wouldn't take long to sell here.

[imanaknut]

Just have a few boxes left of the Tula polymer and would only sell them to an enemy, not a friend. This specific batch must have been made up by a drunk on a Friday evening. All the ammo fires, but some of it just barely makes a bang, and the empties that I have to remove with a cleaning rod are stone cold. Even some of the ones that eject are cold, so I know this ammo is severely underloaded.

Actually I am glad I opened my last case of Wolf because I found out it is the older lacquer coated stuff, so thank you for causing me to open it!

[NewbieAKguy]

Lol, no prob. Happy to lend a hand.

[Bluntforce]

All good info. I don't have poly coated Wolf and won't get any. American brass only for the AR.

Milsurp only for the AKs.