What is too many rounds for Rem 700

[shotdown61]

O.K. picked up a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in 308win.It has the heavy barrel that is just under one inch at muzzle.
The thing was a tack driver out of the box and was shooting sub MOA at 200 yrds.
After maybe 100 rounds through it,shots started to wonder.Thought it was the scope so sent it back and got a better one.
Still the same.rechecked and torque Larue rail,Weaver 6 hole tactical rings and still will not hold zero.

Finally mounted my Leopold and Larue QD mount and still not good.
I can get a decent group but after about the third or fourth shot it goes low and to the right.
After cooling it will not return back to zero.

I now know it is the rifle but what caused it.Was it bad when I got it or did I do the damage.
I would think that heavy barrel could take constant shots with no problem and never too hot where barrel is smoking.

It is going back and Davidsons is sending a new one that will be here on Wednesday.
Any thoughts on this?

[old Grump]

Check your bedding, you should be free floating to minimize barrel shift when it gets hot. What are you shooting for bullets, weight and speed? A different bullet weight, powder and reducing the velocity by 10% may make it behave better after your barrel gets warm. I never fired more than 50 rounds in a high power rifle match and that is about what I shot in practice. If you need to shoot a hundred rounds per session may I suggest a 22 rifle. Even they will get hot after a 100 rounds but not like your .308 will.

[shotdown61]

Check your bedding, you should be free floating to minimize barrel shift when it gets hot. What are you shooting for bullets, weight and speed? A different bullet weight, powder and reducing the velocity by 10% may make it behave better after your barrel gets warm. I never fired more than 50 rounds in a high power rifle match and that is about what I shot in practice. If you need to shoot a hundred rounds per session may I suggest a 22 rifle. Even they will get hot after a 100 rounds but not like your .308 will.

Its the synthetic stock and not much in the way of bedding or floating.
These are my hand loads, 45gr varget,168gr Hornady BTHP.
The rifle did very well till about 100rds and will not come back to zero.Everything that could be torque and checked has.
Even after letting it cool after only less than 20 rounds it slings bullets back 6in right past last hit.
Grump,I meant that after only 100 founds total shots that was shot since I got it not all at once.Not one trip to the range

[old Grump]

Crapola, sounds more like bore problem if you know your scope is solid. I assume you have checked the muzzle for damage and your bore is spotless clean.

[alismith]

I'm with Gump on this one. It sounds like the rifling is fouled up somehow...excessive copper buildup somewhere.

Or, maybe it hasn't been shot enough to "break" it in. Many rifles don't settle down until 300-500 shots have been fired through it. I've heard that an AK doesn't "settle down" to consistent groupings until about 2,000 rounds have been fired through it. Maybe, somethig like that is what this rifle needs...a decent break-in period...

[Schuetzenman]

So in those hundred rounds, how many times did you clean the bore and what did you clean it with. How did you clean it, example push bronze bore brush from chamber to muzzle, unscrew then pull out rod, put brush back oon then push through again. Are you useing Sweets or another bore solvent cleaner? Ever heard of JB Bore paste? Lastly, guilt edged accuracy is not a forever thing on any rifle, except maybe a .22 lr match rifle. Centerfire weapons throat erode eventually, though usually not until you get near 1000 rounds provided you don't get the barrels smoking hot. I would suggest that if you want to shoot that way, invest in 300° Below Cryo treatment before you shoot the weapon 100 rounds to improve and preserve the steel before it gets eroded.

[Durangokid]

The short neck on the .308 grows fast and of course very uneven. Are you trimming and turning the necks down? The thick necks can cause varying high pressures and bullets that are launched off center to the bore axis. It is very possible after brass is loaded a number of times to have over sized flash holes as well. It sounds like your variable is in your ammo and not in the barrel. Can you drop a bullet into the neck of a fired case? If not you have thick necks.

[shotdown61]

The short neck on the .308 grows fast and of course very uneven. Are you trimming and turning the necks down? The thick necks can cause varying high pressures and bullets that are launched off center to the bore axis. It is very possible after brass is loaded a number of times to have over sized flash holes as well. It sounds like your variable is in your ammo and not in the barrel. Can you drop a bullet into the neck of a fired case? If not you have thick necks.

All brass was once fired,sized,trimed and reamed.Been loading for a very long time.Not the ammo.

[shotdown61]

Crapola, sounds more like bore problem if you know your scope is solid. I assume you have checked the muzzle for damage and your bore is spotless clean.

Bore has been kept spotless.Use only nylon brushes,Hoppes,M-Pro 7,nylon coated cleaning rods.Also rifling and bore look like new.

[shotdown61]

I'm with Gump on this one. It sounds like the rifling is fouled up somehow...excessive copper buildup somewhere.

Or, maybe it hasn't been shot enough to "break" it in. Many rifles don't settle down until 300-500 shots have been fired through it. I've heard that an AK doesn't "settle down" to consistent groupings until about 2,000 rounds have been fired through it. Maybe, somethig like that is what this rifle needs...a decent break-in period...

Just not sure about the break in.Like I said,I can get a 3 shot group under an inch and by the fourth shot it will drift low and to the right.
After cool down it will try to come back to center but makes it 4 or 5 in away from last shot.
I just want to make sure if I am at fault I dont want to repeat with the new one coming.

[shotdown61]

This first picture was when I remounted scope and had to rezero.Top left and down to zero

This one shows it going down and right and cool down back up and left.

And also this one that was the last shots before I headed home.This target is at 200yrds and this will have gotten way worse if I shot it anymore.

[Schuetzenman]

Just not sure about the break in.Like I said,I can get a 3 shot group under an inch and by the fourth shot it will drift low and to the right.
After cool down it will try to come back to center but makes it 4 or 5 in away from last shot.
I just want to make sure if I am at fault I dont want to repeat with the new one coming.

I think it sounds like barrel stress. Reference my last post about 300° Below Industries in IL to get your barrel stress relieved via Cyrogenic treatment. I have a Remington 700 BDL in .30-06, initially it would do 2 shots then start wandering off. After a complete cool down it would come back for 2 shots. Sent it and got it Cryo treated, since then it will do 10 shots in the same group at 200, holds about 1 MOA average.

[old Grump]

The Schuetzenman is probably right but one more thing at the back of my mind but didn't want to mention it till the bore and muzzle were ruled out as culprits. Do you have acess to another stock, preferably wood and better yet laminated wood. You say everything is tight so the barel should not be shifting in relation to the receiver but if you got a bum stock that gets hot and soft it could be allowing the rifle to shift during the shot causing weird things after it gets warmed up. That might explain the shot being off after it cools down because you are starting out cockeyed. Shouldn't be a problem with a Remington stock but sometimes the answer is in a strange corner and the last place we look. If it's a stock problem than you are in the unenviable position of having to herd a worm in a straight line by pushing on its tail. Not saying it's likely but would be a quick and easy check if you can get another stock to try.

[shotdown61]

The only other thing that has not been swapped or changed is the stock.But since the gun is going to be replaced Wednesday, alittle too late to see what a new stock would do.
But yes Grump I am with you on the stock.It was going to be my next purchase for the Remington.
We will see what the next one does.I dont think that cheap synthetic stock was made for the heat.
I have to agree 100% on that one.

[shotdown61]

So I got the other replacement and replaced the stock with a H-S Precision.I think this is going to be the cure for the 700.
I did screw up when ordering the stock and ended up with the larger barrel channel but after mounting I do like the fact that it will allow the barrel to cool off better.
To me it looks just fine.Also if I decide to replace with a larger barrel I wont have to replace the stock.

[old Grump]

Pillar bedded?

[shotdown61]

Pillar bedded?

Yep.Aluminum.

[old Grump]

Time to test the pudding with a couple of targets but I suspect unless you done pissed off the Gods on Mt Olympus that your wandering problems are over.

[shotdown61]

Time to test the pudding with a couple of targets but I suspect unless you done pissed off the Gods on Mt Olympus that your wandering problems are over.

Not sure who the hell I pissed off but hopefully you are right.
I will try to get to the gun club Sunday or Monday to try it out.Crossing my finger and toes.
Will post pictures as long as I do well.