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Thread: AR SBR / pistol questions

  1. #1
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    AR SBR / pistol questions

    Hi,

    I'm very new to the whole SBR issue. Here's my idea. Please let me know if this is legal.

    I plan on getting a dedicated AR pistol lower and putting a 10" "SBR" set up 300 blk upper. I don't need any NFA paperwork for that, correct?

    Next, can I apply for SBR paperwork with that same dedicated pistol lower if I would choose to down the road? I'm basically asking if I can set it up as a pistol so I can use the 300 blk while I wait for the NFA paperwork to process.

    Thanks,
    Chris

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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    If I understand what you are saying, as long as you put an upper with a barrel longer than 16 inches on your lower you are legal. Get the tax stamp for your intended SBR and once you have it, then you can get the upper and install it on the lower.

    If I am not mistaken, due to the design of the AR-15 ATF has decided that having a "pistol" upper along with a completed standard length carbine or rifle does not make it "constructive intent". They have made several rulings on the AR-15 because of all the available combinations so you might want to go to the ATF website and search for latest AR-15 rulings. Also check their FAQs as they give a lot of answers to many questions as to what they consider legal regardless as to what the constitution says.

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    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Look at it this way and set aside the SBR aspect for now. If you build it as a pistol on a pistol marked lower, it is a pistol and legal to operate as a pistol. No stock on a Pistol buffered AR pistol = pistol and legal.

    Now, it is legal to convert a pistol to Short Barrel Rifle status on a form 1 and the paying of the $200 buck tax. On the application you will need to list the serial number, and caliber or I suppose you can list it as MULTI so that you can swap uppers say from .22 LR to 9 mm to what ever. You will need to get the thing engraved with your name and address as the Maker of the SBR. After the tax stamp comes back, then and only then can you put a buttstock buffer on the weapon and upgrade it to a SBR.

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    Senior Member L1A1Rocker's Avatar

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    Schuetezenman is correct. Here is my pistol build in 300BLK.



    I'm currently 2 months in waiting on my SBR paperwork to convert it to an SBR. Do NOT put a verticle forgrip on the lower rail. That is a whole different NFA item and paperwork. ATF has cleared the Magpul AFG grip (as depicted in my photo) for use on pistols.

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    Thanks for all the input. I was hoping that would be the answer I got. I hated the idea of putting up the money and waiting 2 years to have my item (12 months for rifle to be built and 6-12 months on NFA)

    LA1 - how does the 300 handle as a pistol? I'm going to suppress it as well. I'm considering just leaving it as a pistol if it's pretty manageable. Also, when you say ATF cleared the Magpul AFG, I assume that includes other AFG's? I'm eyeing up the Spikes.

    Last question. I'm likely moving in a month or two. What does that do to my paperwork? Am I better off waiting until I get to PA to start this process?

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    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    In my opinion you should wait on any Nfa paper work if you are moving. They might take it as you trying to be deceptive if you fill out the form 1 with addresss x and you end up living at address Y in another state by the time they process the paper.

  7. #7
    Team GunsNet Platinum 07/2011 nfa1934's Avatar

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    Don't list MULTI as your caliber on a Form 1. ATF will reject it.

    List the caliber you use to assemble the SBR the first time. You will also have to provide barrel length and overall length. Again, use the measurement you use to assemble the SBR for the first time. After that, you can use the registered lower to assemble an SBR in any caliber or barrel length you want. Just keep the upper you used for your first build; as long as you maintain the capability to assemble the SBR in the configuration on the paperwork, you're fine. Swapping uppers in different calibers and lengths is perfectly legal and does not need to be reflected on the paperwork and no ATF notification is necessary (unless you get rid of the original upper and make the change permanent).

    Here are three of my SBRs (waiting on paperwork for a fourth):



    The middle is .300 BLK. Highly recommend that cartridge! Also recommend getting a suppressor.
    Last edited by nfa1934; 04-25-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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    Team GunsNet Platinum 07/2011 nfa1934's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    In my opinion you should wait on any Nfa paper work if you are moving. They might take it as you trying to be deceptive if you fill out the form 1 with addresss x and you end up living at address Y in another state by the time they process the paper.
    I would be less concerned with appearances (ATF isn't even going to know you moved) than with the logistical hassle of moving in the middle of an ATF paperwork wait. First, that weapon isn't legally an SBR until you get the Form 1 returned and do the first assembly in SBR configuration. You will have to mark the name, city, and state of the "maker" of the SBR on the weapon (this is your name, city, and state) and list these new markings on the Form 1. You are going to have to "make" the SBR at the city listed (this means assemble it for the first time in SBR configuration). Then the SBR is going to have to stay in that state until you get a Form 5320.20 approved to carry the SBR across state lines to your new residence. Keep in mind, you can't just leave it at a friend or relative's house (that would constitute an illegal transfer of the weapon, punishable by 10 years/$10K). What are you going to do with it while you wait the 2-4 weeks to get the 5320.20 approved? Also, all these forms are going to be mailed by the ATF back to your original address. Do you trust the post office to still be forwarding your mail 6-8 months after you move? I don't see saving a few months of waiting to be worth this amount of hassle.
    If I had a dollar for every time CAPITALISM was blamed for problems caused by the GOVERNMENT, I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap.

    12 string guitars only have 6 extra strings, but they're 85 TIMES as likely to be used in a song about wizards.

    I like big 'bots and I cannot lie...
    I got the model from Bandai.

  9. #9
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Interesting, didn't know ATF would balk at multi designation. I'm surprised that they allow receivers to be marked "Multi" in light of this information.

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    Senior Member Partisan1983's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    Interesting, didn't know ATF would balk at multi designation. I'm surprised that they allow receivers to be marked "Multi" in light of this information.
    As we all know...nothing they do makes any sense
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