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Thread: What should have happened.

  1. #1
    Team GunsNet Gold 03/2014

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    What should have happened.

    This just in, not "Snopes ed", just passing it along.

    It made a lot of sense to me...







    Need To Read...... Subject: Air Force expert pilot on Benghazi

    I would say every US fighter pilot, retired or on active duty, knows that Panetta and Dempsey both are full of crap when they said there was no time to send help to Benghazi. They claim it was a problem of "time/space." All my friends and I said, "Bullshit." We know they could have gotten F-16s there from Aviano.

    "Hands" Handley is a well-respected USAF fighter pilot. Here is his short resume and what he just wrote about Benghazi below that. If anything, Handley is pessimistic in his timeline of when F-16s could have reached Benghazi . I think they could have been airborne even sooner and turned quicker at Sig. The decision to not try was not based on capability. We had the operational capability in every way.

    I hope Handley's taxes are in order. His IRS audit is forthcoming.

    Eagle Biography

    Colonel Phil "Hands" Handley

    Colonel Phil "Hands" Handley is credited with the highest speed air- to-air gun kill in the history of aerial combat. He flew operationally for all but 11 months of a 26-year career, in aircraft such as the F-86 Sabre, F-15 Eagle, and the C-130A Hercules. Additionally, he flew 275 combat missions during two tours in Southeast Asia in the F- 4D and F-4E. His awards include 21 Air Medals, 3 Distinguished Flying Crosses, and the Silver Star.
    ----------------------------------------------

    Betrayal in Benghazi
    Phil "Hands" Handley Colonel, USAF (Ret.)

    The combat code of the US Military is that we don't abandon our dead or wounded on the battlefield. In US Air Force lingo, fighter pilots don't run off and leave their wingmen. If one of our own is shot down, still alive and not yet in enemy captivity, we will either come to get him or die trying.

    Among America 's fighting forces, the calm, sure knowledge that such an irrevocable bond exists is priceless. Along with individual faith and personal grit, it is a sacred trust that has often sustained hope in the face of terribly long odds.

    The disgraceful abandonment of our Ambassador and those brave ex-SEALs who fought to their deaths to save others in that compound is nothing short of dereliction-of-duty.

    Additionally, the patently absurd cover-up scenario that was fabricated in the aftermath was an outright lie in an attempt to shield the President and the Secretary of State from responsibility.

    It has been over eight months since the attack on our compound in Benghazi . The White House strategy, with the aid of a "lap dog" press has been to run out the clock before the truth is forthcoming.
    The recent testimonies of the three "whistle blowers" have reopened the subject and hopefully will lead to exposure and disgrace of those responsible for this embarrassing debacle. It would appear that the most recent firewall which the Administration is counting on is the contention "that there were simply no military assets that could be brought to bear in time to make a difference" mainly due to the unavailability of tanker support for fighter aircraft.

    This is simply BS, regardless how many supposed "experts" the Administration trot out to make such an assertion.

    The bottom line is that even if the closest asset capable of response was half-way around the world, you don't just sit on your penguin ass and do nothing.

    The fact is that the closest asset was not half-way around the world, but as near as Aviano Air Base, Italy where two squadrons of F-16Cs are based.

    Consider the following scenario (all times Benghazi local): When Hicks in Tripoli receives a call at 9:40 PM from Ambassador Stevens informing him "Greg, we are under attack!" (his last words), he immediately notifies all agencies and prepares for the immediate initiation of an existing "Emergency Response Plan."

    At AFRICON, General Carter Ham attempts to mount a rescue effort, but is told to "stand down". By 10:30 PM an unarmed drone is overhead the compound and streaming live feed to various "Command and Control Agencies" and everyone watching that feed knew damn well what was going on.

    At 11:30 PM Woods, Doherty and five others leave Tripoli, arriving in Benghazi at 1:30 AM on Wednesday morning, where they hold off the attacking mob from the roof of the compound until they are killed by a mortar direct hit at 4:00 AM.
    So nothing could have been done, eh? Nonsense. If one assumes that tanker support really "was not available" what about this:

    When at 10:00 PM AFRICON alerts the 31st TFW Command Post in Aviano Air Base, Italy of the attack, the Wing Commander orders preparation for the launch of two F-16s and advises the Command Post at NAS Sigonella to prepare for hot pit refueling and quick turn of the jets.

    By 11:30 PM, two F-16Cs with drop tanks and each armed with five hundred 20 MM rounds are airborne. Flying at 0.92 mach they will cover the 522 nautical miles directly to NAS Sigonella in 1.08 hours. While in-route, the flight lead is informed of the tactical situation, rules of engagement, and radio frequencies to use.

    The jets depart Sigonella at 1:10 AM with full fuel load and cover the 377 nautical miles directly to Benghazi in 0.8 hours, arriving at 1:50 AM which would be 20 minutes after the arrival of Woods, Doherty and their team.

    Providing that the two F-16s initial pass over the mob, in full afterburner at 200 feet and 550 knots did not stop the attack in its tracks, only a few well placed strafing runs on targets of opportunity would assuredly do the trick.

    Were the F-16s fuel state insufficient to recover at Sigonelli after jettisoning their external drop tanks, they could easily do so at Tripoli International Airport , only one-half hour away.

    As for those hand-wringing naysayers who would worry about IFR clearances, border crossing authority, collateral damage, landing rights, political correctness and dozens of other reasons not to act" screw them. It is high time that our "leadership" get their priorities straight and put America's interests first.

    The end result would be that Woods and Doherty would be alive. Dozens in the attacking rabble would be rendezvousing with "72 virgins" and a clear message would have been sent to the next worthless POS terrorist contemplating an attack on Americans that it is not really a good idea to "tug" on Superman's cape.

    Of course all this would depend upon a Commander In Chief that was more concerned with saving the lives of those he put in harm's way than getting his crew rested for a campaign fund raising event in Las Vegas the next day. As well as a Secretary of State that actually understood "What difference did it make?", or a Secretary of Defense whose immediate response was not to the effect that "One of the military tenants is that you don't commit assets until you fully understand the tactical situation." Was he not watching a live feed from the unarmed drone, and he didn't understand the tactical situation?

    Ultimately it comes down to the question of who gave that order to stand down? Whoever that coward turns out to be should be exposed, removed from office, and face criminal charges for dereliction of duty. The combat forces of the Untied States of America deserve leadership that really does "have their back" when the chips are down.

  2. #2
    Assuming this account is even true, don't you think strafing F-16 runs might have been a bit overkill?

    Not only would there have been great risk to the people inside the consulate, but it sounds like it was located in a pretty crowded neighborhood which could have put many innocent civilians at risk as well, which wouldn't have been good for public relations if the U.S. over-reacted.

    I'm pretty confident the military brass knows quite well when a situation calls for a broadsword or a scalpel.

    The main problem with Benghazi was that the new Libyan government was still very disorganized and was unable to send help right away. It really should be the host country that provides backup security to foreign embassies and consulates anyway. I don't think we'd like it if China sent warplanes into our airspace just because some rioters were attacking the Chinese consulate here. It would be the job of our police to calm the situation, not foreign military.

    You just have to keep things in perspective.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  3. #3
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2014 El Jefe's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC View Post
    Assuming this account is even true, don't you think strafing F-16 runs might have been a bit overkill?

    Not only would there have been great risk to the people inside the consulate, but it sounds like it was located in a pretty crowded neighborhood which could have put many innocent civilians at risk as well, which wouldn't have been good for public relations if the U.S. over-reacted.

    I'm pretty confident the military brass knows quite well when a situation calls for a broadsword or a scalpel.

    The main problem with Benghazi was that the new Libyan government was still very disorganized and was unable to send help right away. It really should be the host country that provides backup security to foreign embassies and consulates anyway. I don't think we'd like it if China sent warplanes into our airspace just because some rioters were attacking the Chinese consulate here. It would be the job of our police to calm the situation, not foreign military.

    You just have to keep things in perspective.
    Oh fuck you and your "perspective". You filthy Libs will go to any length to cover for Hussein. Only thing you won't do is be honest about it and above board. He's your boy, own it!

    Anyone who doesn't see Benghazi as a giant clusterfuck is a useful idiot. Anyone who doesn't realize why this was allowed to occur either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot, or a Democrat apologist, probably all 3.
    Elmer T. Lee: If I'm fixing myself a whiskey at home, I use a little ice and perhaps some water if it needs it.





  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC View Post
    Assuming this account is even true, don't you think strafing F-16 runs might have been a bit overkill?
    No. It's not.

    Furthermore, WTF do you know about the technical side of strafing with a super-sonic jet? Who the hell are you to make a judgment call about the capabilities of an F-16c or it's pilot?

  5. #5
    Team GunsNet Platinum 12/2012 l921428x's Avatar

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    ur stooopid i believe. just damn.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Kadmos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo GED View Post
    No. It's not.

    Furthermore, WTF do you know about the technical side of strafing with a super-sonic jet? Who the hell are you to make a judgment call about the capabilities of an F-16c or it's pilot?
    So...are you saying it could have shot the people dragging our ambassador out, but not him?

    Or did they finally develop that Muslim seeking missile that would have killed everyone else but left our ambassador unharmed?

    What is the presumption here? That the pilots would have strafed the crowd out side and then what, ejected and strutted in with a kabar held in their teeth and a pair of M9's blasting everyone but the ambassadorial staff?

    I don't think this takes great technical knowledge or modern strafing, just a bit of common sense

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson View Post
    Oh fuck you and your "perspective". You filthy Libs will go to any length to cover for Hussein. Only thing you won't do is be honest about it and above board. He's your boy, own it!
    Oh please. The Republicons cried wolf over this, grasping at straws for any sort of "scandal" they could come up with, and when they make mountains out of molehills all it does is cause the average voter to not take seriously anything else they are saying.

    It's crap like this that helped Barry to be re-elected. Faux News kept beating the dead horse over and over again clear up to the election, but at the end of the day the average voter realized: "if this is all they can criticize him over, something he had no control over, they must have nothing."

    There's a reason why Mittens didn't press the issue during the debates -- his advisers told him it was a turn-off to voters.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  8. #8
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    I'm no pilot, nor a military strategist, but I believe that after one strafing run (killing innocents, or not...as far as I'm concerned, if you're innocent, you wouldn't have been there in the first place), anyone around the embassy would have tried their best to get away from the area. I think one run would have helped change their minds rather quickly....

    Either way, we're talking about protecting Americans' lives (who were there on official US government business), nothing else. Protecting Americans should have been the primary/only goal that night.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

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