Poland Confiscates Half Of Private Pension Funds To "Cut" Sovereign Debt Load

[rshaneck2002]

All I can say Kad is wow man., why in the hell should anyone even get out of bed in the morning., just stay home and watch mana fall from heaven? sounds like a bunch of BS on some crap reality tv show, and it never works long term, never has. Some pull the wagon and some love the ride, human nature I guess? Things such as self respect go the way of the dodo bird along with an individuals self esteem in the end. You cant eat pride., but it makes the soul feel much, much better when looking in a mirror. Our land is truly in trouble with some of this so-called modern thinking, all I know is what works for me and mine and it has always taken hard ass work to get ahead. Not stealing or taking from others, have a nice day sir.

[El Laton Caliente]

Two small but fatal flaws with that thought.

If you put something in there declaring a maximum they will do their best to make sure they spend that max every time they get the chance.

If you specify and/or allow an exemption for times of declared war, you guarantee permanently declared war.
Especially with the current pack of parasitic miscreants.

Of course that's assuming they suddenly find some magical bean that causes the liberty tree to suddenly start growing out of their ass and causes them to not just entirely ignore the constitution like they are right now.

Except during war time 17% to 18% is "normal" for about a Century until lately and it has crept up to nearly 24%. Nearly half that increase is in GWB's last two years through now(dem congress had the purse strings). In general, a central government that keeps spending much over 20% for very long, the country's economy fails.

[Kadmos]

There simply isn't isn't a real solution to the massive debt and future expenditures of gov't programs.

I disagree. The fact is not so very long ago we had a balanced budget and were paying down the debt. It is possible. But it would take some heavy cuts and likely tax increases.

It's not un-doable, it's just unpleasant.

The sad thing is we had the chance and squandered it.

Default/collapse of our monetary system is inevitable at this point.

Far from. We could expand the public debt 3 or 4 times what it is and still not collapse. Many countries have far more public debt, by percent of GDP than we do, and still not manage to collapse.

My stop gap to extend the life of the Republic would be the FAIR TAX, repeal of the 16th, 20% cut across the board of all gov't expenditures, an end to baseline budgeting, elimination of multitudes of gov't agencies that do nothing but infringe on liberty

I wouldn't call that a "stop gap", that's a whole new economic policy. It could easily work. The problem is, it's way more than the people would be willing to accept. A smaller cut with a small tax increase could have the same effect.

Get rid of SS, make people responsible for their own retirement.

The problem with that of course is the multitudes of starving elderly people wandering around, many naked and with dementia.

It's great to think could should be able to plan for their own retirement, the problem is few can actually manage it. A large part of the reason most people didn't live much past 65 was because they couldn't. Malnutrition and exposure. Those with families may fare better, but they do so by being a strain on their family, hampering their children ability to save for their own retirement.

People talk about wanting to have the power to invest the money the government takes from them for SS, but how many could actually manage it?

Even for those who do manage not to live paycheck to paycheck, and actually save money, can they save enough to see them through. Whatever investments they make won't be guaranteed like SS is.

I think of my own father, who is entering retirement in the next couple of years. A successful doctor who owns his home outright, put away money all his life, invested what he thought was wisely, what conventional wisdom said was wisely, in a diverse conservative manner.

Yet divorce took half his assets at one point, and his investments have lost a huge portion of their value, right along with most peoples, in the various "market corrections".

If someone like him is worried about what his retirement would look like without SS, then what real hope do most people have?

[ltorlo64]

It's great to think could should be able to plan for their own retirement, the problem is few can actually manage it. A large part of the reason most people didn't live much past 65 was because they couldn't. Malnutrition and exposure. Those with families may fare better, but they do so by being a strain on their family, hampering their children ability to save for their own retirement.

People talk about wanting to have the power to invest the money the government takes from them for SS, but how many could actually manage it?

Even for those who do manage not to live paycheck to paycheck, and actually save money, can they save enough to see them through. Whatever investments they make won't be guaranteed like SS is.

I think of my own father, who is entering retirement in the next couple of years. A successful doctor who owns his home outright, put away money all his life, invested what he thought was wisely, what conventional wisdom said was wisely, in a diverse conservative manner.

Yet divorce took half his assets at one point, and his investments have lost a huge portion of their value, right along with most peoples, in the various "market corrections".

If someone like him is worried about what his retirement would look like without SS, then what real hope do most people have?

First, I do understand the peril with this, but anytime someone is responsible for their actions their is peril. My parents did not prepare for retirement, now my widowed mother is over 70, still working as a secretary, with no hope of ever stopping working. I wish it were different, but it is not. Yes, it is a drain on my family, but that is what families are supposed to do, take care of each other. In fact, it was not that long ago that a parents retirement was their children. Now, we cannot be bothered to take care of our families. The less we take care of our families the less we are able to take care of ourselves.

The big question is, if others cannot plan for their future or take care of themselves, how do we get to the idea that it is governments job to take money from those who are trying to save and "redistribute" to those who are not planning. In a free country people have the ability to sink or swim based on their own decisions and effort. In our country, which is still the freest, but losing ground every day, if you swim great, if you sink don't worry because we will make those who are swimming swim extra hard to keep you afloat as well. It is freedom to voluntarily help keep people afloat, it is slavery to be forced to help them to the detriment of yourself and your family.

[Oswald Bastable]

The fact is not so very long ago we had a balanced budget and were paying down the debt.

On paper only, and only with the typical governmental monetary gymnastics.

But you guys continue with your mental masturbations of what could/should be done.

I'll jump back in when the discussion turns to what will most probably be done.

[Kadmos]

First, I do understand the peril with this, but anytime someone is responsible for their actions their is peril. My parents did not prepare for retirement, now my widowed mother is over 70, still working as a secretary, with no hope of ever stopping working. I wish it were different, but it is not. Yes, it is a drain on my family, but that is what families are supposed to do, take care of each other. In fact, it was not that long ago that a parents retirement was their children. Now, we cannot be bothered to take care of our families. The less we take care of our families the less we are able to take care of ourselves.

The big question is, if others cannot plan for their future or take care of themselves, how do we get to the idea that it is governments job to take money from those who are trying to save and "redistribute" to those who are not planning. In a free country people have the ability to sink or swim based on their own decisions and effort. In our country, which is still the freest, but losing ground every day, if you swim great, if you sink don't worry because we will make those who are swimming swim extra hard to keep you afloat as well. It is freedom to voluntarily help keep people afloat, it is slavery to be forced to help them to the detriment of yourself and your family.

The thing about the system is it tends to work even if "life" interferes with one's plans.

Children can die before parents, events can leave even the best planners and hardest workers with nothing near the end of their lives.

To me, paying into SS is the least of the problems...it's the one time where it might save your ass in the long run, or even just pay you back. When compared with all the other things that really are, by nearly anyone's standards, outright government waste, SS isn't bad.

[ltorlo64]

The thing about the system is it tends to work even if "life" interferes with one's plans.

Children can die before parents, events can leave even the best planners and hardest workers with nothing near the end of their lives.

To me, paying into SS is the least of the problems...it's the one time where it might save your ass in the long run, or even just pay you back. When compared with all the other things that really are, by nearly anyone's standards, outright government waste, SS isn't bad.

I would disagree that it works. What it has done is lead people to believe they can retire without planning because the government will take care of the planning for them (Actually, looking at it that way it may be working just as designed. It is just another way to make people more dependent on government and less on themselves so anyone who believes in self-reliance becomes a bad, uncompassionate person.) This is not what this system was designed for and it is one of the reasons it is failing.

You answered why you like the plan, not what gives government the right to take from those who are planning and give to those who are not, what allows our government that is supposed to protect freedom and turn us into slaves for others.

[Kadmos]

I would disagree that it works. What it has done is lead people to believe they can retire without planning because the government will take care of the planning for them (Actually, looking at it that way it may be working just as designed. It is just another way to make people more dependent on government and less on themselves so anyone who believes in self-reliance becomes a bad, uncompassionate person.) This is not what this system was designed for and it is one of the reasons it is failing.

I don't think that's the case at all. You still have to work to get the payout. And the longer you work and the more you make (up to a point) the better the payout is.

Those who can afford to add additional savings usually do, those who can't, well, can't.

You answered why you like the plan, not what gives government the right to take from those who are planning and give to those who are not, what allows our government that is supposed to protect freedom and turn us into slaves for others.

That's not accurate either. Those who are planning are also planning with their SS payments as part of the plan. Those who are not planning (by saving privately) are still in a way planning, or having it planned for them by SS.

Unless your overall argument is that taxes in general equal slavery, then this actually frees people up in their later years. It's a calculable amount that you basically can't "screw up" or have "life happen" and find yourself without it (barring near total collapse).

Tell me, do you honestly think that if we scrapped SS then more people would have more money saved up for their final years? Do you think the elderly would generally be better off then they are under the current system?

[jet3534]

t's not "stealing half a persons life savings"...it's changing who holds the money for you.

To paraphrase George Orwell your language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

[Kadmos]

To paraphrase George Orwell your language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

Really?

You dug up, a what 10 month old, post that has nothing to do with anything in particular to take a minor jab at me?

I had no idea you were a female.

Am I supposed to go through five pages, research what this was about, find updated stuff, and then respond?

Maybe later in the day if I get bored enough

[El Jefe]

To paraphrase George Orwell your language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

Jet, its what McDouche does.