How to shut a libtard up...

[Aggressive Perfector]

An attempt at a successful conversion (or at least an opening of the mind) of a Libtard:
Gregory posted:

)-Aside from those who are simply born into wealth, or hit the lottery, there are rich people who earned it. They had a genius idea, worked hard to make that idea a reality, and put it on the market. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, William Harley, Arthur Davidson, and Andrew Carnegie come to mind. That's how capitalism works. Your idea, your product, your profit. You do the kind of work that's in high demand that others can't due to lack of skill, knowledge, or over all ability, you get paid more than the guy who does a job a monkey could probably be taught to handle. You got something to sell that there isn't a lot of and everyone wants it? You can sell it for more Vs. the guy who has something that's a dime a dozen that people may want. You got multiple people making the same thing? You get competition. How does competition work? People try to sell for the lowest price they can make a profit on, and try to make it better than the other guys. The way things should be.
Socialism-
Government owns everything. Everyone gets paid the same. Nobody gets rich outside the government. Government is all powerful.

always on the backs of those who make it work

Hence why workers get paid. More rich people making shit = more jobs. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Now if you want to touch on the subject of rich motherfuckers OUTSOURCING their manufacturing to other countries and creating less jobs IN AMERICA in order to save money on labor... Burn them at the stake, I agree. But to the rich bastards keeping their products (at LEAST 80%->) made in the USA, give them big big tax breaks to encourage the action. Those who outsource, tax the fucking shit out of them.

hows that trickle down workin for ya?

Works just fine for me. Honest days work, honest days pay, and I'm proud of it. I might not like my job all the time, but I'm proud of what I do. There are a lot of people in this world who couldn't handle it. Hence why I make good money, and get good benefits. What kills me is taxes paid supporting those who can't say the same. IE: the lazy, the criminals locked up in prisons, the politicians who over step their boundaries and do the opposite of what they get paid to do, you...

And no reply.

[ltorlo64]

Well done. Excellent points presented in a thoughtful, well worded way. There is not defense against the kind of argument you presented. Especially when you point out that most of the reason for disparity in income is due to initiative and hard work.

[Schuetzenman]

Well done. Excellent points presented in a thoughtful, well worded way. There is not defense against the kind of argument you presented. Especially when you point out that most of the reason for disparity in income is due to initiative and hard work.

True there isn't a reason in incomes other than Initiative, hard work, creativity and Intelligence. Oh and one last thing ... ruthlessness. No big business success ever made it being compassionate for their fellow man. Don't get me wrong, I am 110% behind capitalism but none of the mega rich people in history have been swell guys, they were all assholes and bastards, but they were assholes with a vision and the intelligence to put together a plan to make it happen. I guess you could say this is no more than the yin and yang of reality. For all good things there is a dark side; Bluebirds, rainbows and bunnies hopping happily under blue skies doesn't exist. However, Capitalism offers the greatest freedom and chance for the individual and society to flourish. Socialism and especially Communism crushes freedom, liberty, innovation and discovery.

[ltorlo64]

True there isn't a reason in incomes other than Initiative, hard work, creativity and Intelligence. Oh and one last thing ... ruthlessness. No big business success ever made it being compassionate for their fellow man. Don't get me wrong, I am 110% behind capitalism but none of the mega rich people in history have been swell guys, they were all assholes and bastards, but they were assholes with a vision and the intelligence to put together a plan to make it happen.

For the incredibly successful, you are right. For the run of the mill, small business owner, not so much. I have worked for a couple and my uncle owns a small business. They were not ruthless, which is why they don't get to the incredible size, but they can still be big and very successful.

[l921428x]

good post, question? some athletes/actors are dumb as rocks and garner 20, 30 ,40, 50, million an episode. where do the dumb rich fit?

[Aggressive Perfector]

^Actors may have some skills most of us lack... But I'm pretty sure their only skill is being a master of deception. But, whatever. People buy their shit.
Athletes- They are better at sports than the average joe. The average joe loves sports. The average joe loves to watch sports. So the teams' merchandise gets bought and valuable players get idolized, and athletes get a nice big chunk of change out of it.

[LAGC]

Don't get me wrong, I am 110% behind capitalism but none of the mega rich people in history have been swell guys, they were all assholes and bastards, but they were assholes with a vision and the intelligence to put together a plan to make it happen.

Case in point: Steve Jobs. One Class A piece of work. Asshole stole his partner's idea, sold it, kept most of the money for himself, compensating his partner only a small pittance. Then when the company went public, he weaseled his way into getting majority stake while leaving the real brains of the operation holding his bags.

Apple is Exhibit A as to what's wrong with capitalism today. Here you have a company that repackages inferior products, slaps on some "elegant" design, and sells them for hundreds more than their equivalent alternatives, and idiot fanboys line up and snap them up each and every time a new product is announced, just because of the brand name.

There really needs to be some balance between spurring innovation versus greedy opportunism fucking over the low-information consumers.

[Kadmos]

And no reply.

He may have been speechless.

First, your definition of socialism is off, you're thinking of communism.

Second, saying you are 100% for capitalism but against outsourcing is ridiculous. capitalism doesn't give a shit where the work is done, just that the profits are maximized.

If we were totally "made in America" gas would likely be over $8 a gallon, clothing at least 5 times as much

Nor is "a fair day's work for a fair day's wage" capitalism, that's actually much closer to socialism. Capitalism would be "a full day's work for the least a worker will take".

The reason you get good pay and benefits is because 100+ years of trade unions forcing through laws and collectively bargained contracts in order to get you those things.

Sorry, but I get a little sick of people going on about how they are capitalists and then talk about rigging the game to their own advantage still be means of socialism. A fair day's wage for a fair day's work was essentially a slogan of socialist union workers.

[ltorlo64]

Case in point: Steve Jobs. One Class A piece of work. Asshole stole his partner's idea, sold it, kept most of the money for himself, compensating his partner only a small pittance. Then when the company went public, he weaseled his way into getting majority stake while leaving the real brains of the operation holding his bags.

Apple is Exhibit A as to what's wrong with capitalism today. Here you have a company that repackages inferior products, slaps on some "elegant" design, and sells them for hundreds more than their equivalent alternatives, and idiot fanboys line up and snap them up each and every time a new product is announced, just because of the brand name.

There really needs to be some balance between spurring innovation versus greedy opportunism fucking over the low-information consumers.

The "low-information consumers" are not being screwed over, at least not as you propose. They have the same ability to investigate the products as anyone else and to make the decision to buy or not. Why do you have such a hard time with letting people be responsible for their own actions. In this case, if someone would rather buy a product based on a 30 second, flashy and funny commercial vice investigating the product, reading reviews, maybe even trying it out, it is their fault for buying an inferior item. It is not the manufacturer's fault. Of course, to read reviews, investigate takes time away from entertainment, recreation, texting, etc, etc, etc.