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Thread: So How's That Whole $15 Minimum Wage Thing Working Out?

  1. #41
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    Jesus lagsocialist, you just said these same mcdonalds workers who pissed on education are going to graduate (metaphorically speaking) from flipping burgers with gold teeth and no grammar, and go into $15 an hour technology jobs DESIGNING and USING computers and creating machines? Are you fucking serious? The people who will be replaced by the machines WILL HAVE NO JOBS! I AM ALMOST SCREAMING THIS AT MY COMPUTER! SOMEONE NEEDS TO SMACK YOU hard IN THE HEAD! The people who pissed on every opportunity that God, life, and our country provided them THEN decided it was unfair that they had nothing.....So they bitch and moan about how they don't have enough money to buy the new xbox they want, and demand $15 an hour. They then are replaced by MACHINES, and you believe that WHAM, after a time warp, they will magically turn into college grads needing computer and machine designing jobs to create these things? Really? Might take a company of say, 100 EDUCATED, DEGREED people to create the machine. Might take 100 more to produce them (along with machines), and then the entire country (and eventually the world) will have mcdonalds run by these things. AND, 2-300 COLLEGE DEGREE jobs will have replaced MILLIONS of menial, low skilled jobs.

    WHAT WILL YOUR SOCIALIST BRETHREN DO LAGSOCIALIST AFTER THEY NO LONGER HAVE JOBS?
    "What sick, barbaric bastards.

    It's one thing to use terrorism to make a political statement, but the wanton mutilation and suffering of innocents? How does that forward your political goals? When done in the name of religion, how does that earn you brownie points with God?

    Fuck religious extremism. And especially fuck the "religion of peace." "

    So, lagcsocialist supports terrorism AS LONG AS ITS FOR POLITICAL ENDS....

  2. #42
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskiegunlover View Post
    Jesus lagsocialist, you just said these same mcdonalds workers who pissed on education are going to graduate (metaphorically speaking) from flipping burgers with gold teeth and no grammar,
    Like I said, you must live in a really shitty neighborhood. Most of the people I see working at fast-food around here don't strike me as strung-out drug abusers. They are professional, they are polite, and on the rare occasion your order isn't right, they are more than happy to make up for it. Quite a few "moms" over the age of 30, probably trying to jockey for a position as supervisor or manager, just to make ends meet.

    You didn't start seeing this push for higher wages in the fast-food industry until just recently, as more and more college grads resorted to such "shit jobs."

    The people who will be replaced by the machines WILL HAVE NO JOBS!
    Maybe not in fast-food should automation really prove to be cheaper (that remains to be seen), but there are plenty of other jobs in retail and otherwise that I bet many would rather do than flipping burgers all day long any how.

    Fast-food workers are only one small subset of low-wage workers, and most of those non-fast-food workers can't easily be replaced by machines.

    WHAT WILL YOUR SOCIALIST BRETHREN DO LAGSOCIALIST AFTER THEY NO LONGER HAVE JOBS?
    Everyone said the same thing with the advent of computers: automation is going to lead to massive unemployment!

    But the reality is, many new jobs became available UTILIZING technology, which in turn boosted worker productivity.

    Why don't we just wait and see how this plays out in Seattle? They are taking a much more cautious and conservative approach, only raising the minimum wage gradually over the period of several years.

    The article in the OP was merely criticizing SeaTac's approach of jacking the minimum wage clear up to $15/hour in one fell swoop, which obviously caused some rough adjustments, but the verdict isn't all bad so far:

    http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...cprop1xml.html

    It's an interesting experiment, let's see how this plays out... they may be able to iron out the issues over time. Or scrap it and follow Seattle's lead with a more conservative approach.

    Really though, what needs to be done is a modest raise at the national level. President Obama has talked about raising the Federal minimum wage up from $7.25/hour to $10.10/hour, which is far less radical than Seattle's approach. Keep in mind that that wage would STILL be less than what the minimum wage was worth in today's dollars back in 1968 (close to $11/hour) -- then perhaps the minimum wage could be pegged to inflation like Washington state's.

    Again, Washington state's economy isn't hurting from such a policy.
    Last edited by LAGC; 06-08-2014 at 09:52 AM.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC
    Everyone said the same thing with the advent of computers: automation is going to lead to massive unemployment!
    .....and all those nice UAW jobs bolting on fenders with good pensions went where?? Look at Detroit and you'll see quite clearly.
    Of course there is no mass unemployment since the books are now cooked to exclude inconvenient stats like actual unemployed people.
    CHOOT UM!

  4. #44
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC View Post
    I think you and Oswald are on to something here. I have no problem with automated technology taking over various aspects of menial labor.

    For what jobs might be lost in flipping burgers, more will be made-up in jobs designing, building, and maintaining such food-dispensing machines.

    Again, to me the issue isn't so much about providing more pay to low-skill workers, but rather all the college grads right now who can't find work, and are trying to pay off student loans.

    In that sense, raising the minimum wage could very well spur some serious innovation. And that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing at all.

    It could also open up opportunities for many of these low-skilled workers to enter into trades schools to learn how to service the machines.

    There are many aspects to consider here...
    Ahhh...so now it's got nothing to do with a living wage for poor schlubs...now it's all about spurring innovation.

    Have to enjoy the twists and turns of a socialist spinning and and twirling...

    ...the most enjoyable is in the wind, at the end of a rope.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

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  5. #45
    Team GunsNet Silver 03/2014 sevlex's Avatar

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    We saw how well it worked for Sea-Tac, but how about Seattle proper?

    Oops!

    http://viral.buzz/seattles-15-minimu...-wage-is-zero/

    SEATTLE’S MINIMUM WAGE CRASH: $15 to ZERO! Profits Tumble!

    November 16, 2014 By Bill Chandler



    Seattle, Washington, one of the strongest remaining bastions of liberal philosophy left in the country, passed a phased-in $15 minimum wage law earlier this year. The highest minimum wage in the country. The vote was unanimous and the throng outside cheered, but for many this is a loss from which they will never recover. It is a blow to the profitability of businesses that they just can’t take.

    Even the left-leaning Seattle Times expressed concern wondering if Seattle had indeed “gone too far.”

    minimumwage_01According to the National Review Hotline, Kathrina Tugadi owner of Seattle’s El Norte Lounge, no longer hires musicians for her restaurant, she said she can’t justify expenses that don’t directly “add to the bottom line.” And, she says, hours will have to be cut: El Norte Lounge plans to stop serving lunch and only serve dinner.

    “I am concerned about my business and others in the community, but it isn’t just about any one business. It’s about how the entire economic community,” she said. El Norte may be unable to remain open once the ordinance is fully in effect, she said. Even Pagliacci Pizza, a Seattle-area pizza chain, is moving its call center and some of its production facilities outside the city. That’s a lot of job loss, a lot of new people with a new wage of ZERO.

    Socialist Council-member Kshama Sawant was the main proponent of the $15 ordinance. She and her supporters denied that the policy change would hurt businesses in the city. In one interview, Sawant said there need be “no unintended consequences.”



    “No Unintended Consequences?” Who is she kidding? There are always consequences. In this case the consequences are the businesses that are downsizing, closing and failing, jobs that are lost, and most of all, people whose new hourly wage is ZERO. No unintended intended consequences? Are our politicians really that . . . stupid? Yes, I said it, Stupid. Do they really think taxes are irrelevant, businesses are omnipotent and that they can be drained in the name of politics without “any intended consequences?”

    Do our politicians really not understand that our standard of living is the direct result
    of one thing . . . the vitality of our businesses?

    She went on to state that “any additional costs could come out of ‘extravagant profits’ rather than consumers pockets.” You have got to be kidding me . . . squared! Extravagant profits? Tell that to all the entrepreneurs out there who are trying desperately to make ends meet. Explain that to the mortgage companies they are trying to pay. And please pass that on to those on the street who’s job no longer exists. And, by the way:

    where do you think every paycheck every employee has ever received came from?

    Yes, Kshama, they came from business, all of them. And where do you think these businesses came from? They came from regular people like you and I who took a chance, rolled the dice, worked hard and were able to provide the people with something of value. All of them, that is where every single business you deplore came from.



    You may think there are no intended consequences, but survey results tell a different story. Seattle Time contracted with a survey research firm to contact businesses in a broad range of industries likely to be impacted by the law. These are not businesses you’d describe as extravagant. Not surprisingly, nearly 70 percent of respondents in Seattle said that the $15 minimum wage is causing a “big increase” in their labor costs, and over 60 percent planned to pass on what they could to customers through higher prices.

    But, according to Michael Saltsman, research director at the Employment Policies Institute, “price increases are not a silver bullet. After all, were businesses able to raise their prices at will without reducing sales, the minimum wage would be an afterthought. Customers have a choice: If prices increase, they could dine out less often or see one fewer movie a month. That’s why businesses are forced to adapt to a compulsory wage hike in other ways.”

    In Seattle, 42 percent of surveyed employers were “very likely” to reduce the number of employees per shift or overall staffing levels as a direct consequence of the law. Similarly, 44 percent reported that they were “very likely” to scale back on employees’ hours to help offset the increased cost of the law. That’s particularly bad news for the Seattle metro area, where the unemployment rate for 16- to 19-year-olds is already more than 30 percent — due in part to Washington state’s already-high minimum wage.

    Perhaps most concerning about the $15 proposal is that some businesses anticipated going beyond an increase in prices or a reduction in staffing levels. More than 43 percent of respondents said it was “very likely” they would limit future expansion in Seattle in response to the law. One in seven respondents is even “very likely” to close a current location in the city limits.

    Yes, it it always sounds good to give people more free stuff, but once again, everything has a price. I asked a group of sixth graders what they would do. It only took them a few minutes to determine that their only choices were to; fire some employees, raise prices, or go out of business. They also concluded that people won’t come to your store if you charge too much. If sixth graders grasp this, what is wrong with our politicians?

    Seattle is the first city in the country to pass a $15 minimum wage. Survey results suggested it will be the first city to find out why it was such a bad idea.

    No matter how badly we would like it to be otherwise, there are always a consequences,
    and 2+2 will always equal 4.
    Denninger sums it up nicely:

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229635
    But you will not get a $15 minimum wage if you're currently making under $10. You are very likely, in fact more than half-likely, to get zero instead because the company you work for will either fire you, replace you with a computer if it can, or cut back your hours dramatically.

    Welcome to this thing called arithmetic folks, and for those of you who thought you could cram this down employer's throats, no, you can't, for the simple reason that for most employers labor is one of, if not the largest cost of their operation. Adding 30% or more to that operating cost will turn a profit into a loss at which point the company ultimately goes out of business and then you no longer have a job.

    Stupidity has a price -- in this case the price is that you get to live under a freeway overpass.
    Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.

    Telling the truth is treason in an empire of lies.

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  6. #46
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    I see you're quoting someone's personal blog.

    How about we take a look at the actual numbers?



    http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...ntjulyxml.html

    Sure seems like Seattle is doing something right.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  7. #47
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Hey doofus Seattle passed their new minimum wage in June.

    Your chart ends in July.

  8. #48
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    You're right. More recent numbers through October show their current unemployment rate is even lower: 4.5%

    http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wa_seattle_md.htm

    Way to go, Seattle!
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  9. #49
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Let's see if it continues, still pretty early to see what kind of ripple effect this will have, 4 months isn't exactly a proof positive of the benefits.

    Especially seeing as it was trending down even before the new wage was passed.

  10. #50
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    True enough. There are many factors in play, for sure.

    I might just point out that it was sevlex who kicked this thread back to the top just 6 months later, not me.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  11. #51
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    If you think this is bad, how about a company owner (2nd generation) that goes to the union "negotiations" and gives them this speech. He pulls out a dollar bill and a pair of scissors and starts cutting.
    With the first cut, he says "This is what I pay in taxes."
    With the second cut, he says "This is what I pay for utilities."
    With the third cut, he says "This is what I pay in wages."
    Then he pauses and tells the people, holding up the rest of the dollar bill. He says "This is my profit. When you start cutting into this is when I shut the doors!"
    Guess what the union did?

    It caved!


    Belleville Shoe is now under the control of the grandson of the founder and still makes "military footwear".
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

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