Brave Iraqi Army Officer, Stood his Ground, refused to Betray Iraq, Paid with his Life!

[Hobe Sound AK]

Just now, while I was looking at the General Discussion, I forgot to change the Channel back to Fox, after watching the Local NBC News. I Saw the first few Min. of NBC News. I never watch NBC News! But I am glad I saw this Video before changing the Channel. The Taliban captured several Iraqi Army Soldiers. They were all in Camouflage Uniform except for the Officer in Kacki, with 2 Gold Stripes on his Shoulder Boards. They asked them to Swear Allegiance to the Taliban. He Refused! They Shot him on Camera. I give Him Credit for standing his Ground, Keeping his Beliefs, his Faith, and his Oath to his Country. He had to know they were going to Kill Him. While we can always say, we may not know what we would do in His Place. I can!!! I would have done the same thing. They later Killed them all anyway! He will be remembered.

[FunkyPertwee]

I think this thread serves as a big "fuck you" to the "all men break at some point" crowd.

[Schuetzenman]

It is a bit of a shame that his soldiers didn't have as much spine. If they had these ISIS fuckers would of been wiped out before they took the first city.

[Kadmos]

I think this thread serves as a big "fuck you" to the "all men break at some point" crowd.

If you shoot them in the head in the first five minutes it's not going to work. Although I'm guessing the next guy they asked took the oath

[samiam]

So much for that hearts and minds shit

[tank_monkey]

The Islamisist are fucking monsters. Iraqis aren't hardline Muslims. They were ALWAYS more secular than the rest of the region. Iran USED to be that way but the hardline Islamisists took over the country in the late 1970s.

I have a lot of friends who like the Iraqis and their police force and army. These guys fought along side them. But as I said before, their guys are not only naive, they have a completely different culture than we do. We're one of those cultures that exalts honor, duty and service. We make great soldiers. Middle Eastern Armies are like African or South American armies. Kinda hopeless. They are nothing like Western Armies or Asian Armies (the U.S. should know, we've fought every major Asian race in the 20th century and so rarely did we ever consider them to be cowards).

Again this is a stain on OBama's golf playing, partisan hack, legacy.

[Oswald Bastable]

If you shoot them in the head in the first five minutes it's not going to work. Although I'm guessing the next guy they asked took the oath

Spoken like a true spineless Kapo willing to slaughter his countrymen.

[Kadmos]

Spoken like a true spineless Kapo willing to slaughter his countrymen.

No, spoken like a person who values life.

If you were next in line after this guy, would you have taken one to the head, or just lied and taken some BS oath before trying to escape?

[Oswald Bastable]

No, spoken like a person who values life.

If you were next in line after this guy, would you have taken one to the head, or just lied and taken some BS oath before trying to escape?

As a man with a spine and honor, one to the head.

Death is not the end.

You of course, would have gladly slaughtered your mother to survive another day.

[FunkyPertwee]

No, spoken like a person who values life.

If you were next in line after this guy, would you have taken one to the head, or just lied and taken some BS oath before trying to escape?

I would have been killed in the initial altercation which led to him being kidnapped.

If I can't kill you, I promise I can make you kill me.

[Kadmos]

As a man with a spine and honor, one to the head.

Congrats on willing to be a corpse....might as well just pull the trigger yourself

Death is not the end.

Above my pay grade.

You of course, would have gladly slaughtered your mother to survive another day.

Nope, I love my mom. And I know she wouldn't want a corpse for a son.

Tell me, what good is that man to his mother now? What good is he to his children? Or his wife?

He can't help them through life anymore. He can't help protect, clothe, or feed them.

Nor can he help his country.

By the way, there are at least a half dozen bible stories to back up my position of lying to save a life. Offhand, Sarah lied to save Abraham, Isaac lied to save Rebecca, Rehab lied to save some spies, some midwives lied to save Moses, and in the NT the Magi lied to King Herod to save Jesus. I'm sure there are several others, but those come quickly to mind.

[Oswald Bastable]

Congrats on willing to be a corpse....might as well just pull the trigger yourself

Congrats on being willing to sacrifice your friends, neighbors, those you don't know just to survive a few more hours...you must be so proud.

Riddle me this...you're kneeling on the ground, your choice to renounce Judaism (if you are actually Jewish), God, and worship Allah, or die. Your choice?

Above my pay grade.

And above your spiritual grade.

Nope, I love my mom. And I know she wouldn't want a corpse for a son.

Tell me, what good is that man to his mother now? What good is he to his children? Or his wife?

He can't help them through life anymore. He can't help protect, clothe, or feed them.

Nor can he help his country.

Really...and what do you think his story will do for the mettle of other Iraqi soldiers? You do understand the value of a martyr, and what that can do for moral? He probably did more for his country than every single soldier who turned tail and ran, donning track clothes and blending in with the populace.

By the way, there are at least a half dozen bible stories to back up my position of lying to save a life. Offhand, Sarah lied to save Abraham, Isaac lied to save Rebecca, Rehab lied to save some spies, some midwives lied to save Moses, and in the NT the Magi lied to King Herod to save Jesus. I'm sure there are several others, but those come quickly to mind.

In each case, there was no other option, their sacrifice would have harmed rather than potentially helped. And this is why you fail at manhood. You can't tell the difference.

[Oswald Bastable]

Handlers still forming a response, eh?

[Kadmos]

Congrats on being willing to sacrifice your friends, neighbors, those you don't know just to survive a few more hours...you must be so proud.

Who said I was willing to sacrifice anyone else? Have I ever said it's right to turn other people in, or anything like that...nope.

I get you are trying to insult me, but the fact is...You really don't know shit about me.

And I've already been tested, I know I will step in front of my mother, daughter, sister in law, or strangers child to prevent what I perceive to be danger. I know that in the correct circumstances, I will stand my ground, fight, shield another, or flee at the appropriate times. I further know that I will run into a smoke filled burning building to save another, or in some cases an animal.

I don't know these things because I am "billy bad ass" talking crap, I know them because I've been there. I'm confident I will do the right thing.

So, basically put, no jackass on the internet is going to make me believe otherwise, and as to what you believe...I really don't much care, because I already know the truth about myself.

Riddle me this...you're kneeling on the ground, your choice to renounce Judaism (if you are actually Jewish), God, and worship Allah, or die. Your choice?

I will absolutely renounce my faith (Judaism), to save my or anyone else's life. I would have zero problem with that whatsoever. And every Rabbi on the planet would tell me that would be the right thing to do. And every Rabbi would correctly assume it would mean nothing, I would still be Jewish, and God would totally understand.

Lie or die...it's an easy choice..lie.

And above your spiritual grade.

No idea what that is supposed to mean. Life after death is not for the living to know. Life is a precious gift, not to be tossed aside lightly.

Really...and what do you think his story will do for the mettle of other Iraqi soldiers?

Honestly, most will likely call him a moron. Perhaps they will laugh uncomfortably at their own choice, but that thought will pass. Then, in less time than you would think, they would forget all about him.

You do understand the value of a martyr, and what that can do for moral?

I will give you that it's possible he will be remembered and become some sort of rallying figure.

Possible but highly unlikely.

He probably did more for his country than every single soldier who turned tail and ran, donning track clothes and blending in with the populace.

Unlikely. Plus, those that live get to write the history books.

In each case, there was no other option, their sacrifice would have harmed rather than potentially helped.

Horseshit. Nice 180 though. But by your logic why wouldn't the death of baby Jesus be the rallying event? Perhaps because 100+ other babies already were likely killed, and it didn't change shit?

"No other option"...you are arguing that death is the best option. All of them had that option.

And this is why you fail at manhood. You can't tell the difference.

You are totally full of crap. How do you know that if this guy lived he wouldn't have done more good?

Perhaps a quick lie, then he helps break out his comrades and they might have gone all Wolverines on ISIS, then once he beat them he was elected President of Iraq and helped write a new constitution ushering in an era of peace for 1000 years, then he retired from politics and went on to cure Aids, cancer, and heart disease, raised 5 kids and 21 grandkids who all became influential citizens who won Noble prizes for a variety of contributions to humanity.

All that potential is gone because he didn't tell one little lie....it's a waste, plain and simple.

[Kadmos]

Handlers still forming a response, eh?

I have other things I'm doing.

[Oswald Bastable]

Who said I was willing to sacrifice anyone else? Have I ever said it's right to turn other people in, or anything like that...nope.

You did, when you justified the actions of the Kapos in the camps.

And I've already been tested, I know I will step in front of my mother, daughter, sister in law, or strangers child to prevent what I perceive to be danger. I know that in the correct circumstances, I will stand my ground, fight, shield another, or flee at the appropriate times. I further know that I will run into a smoke filled burning building to save another, or in some cases an animal.

I don't know these things because I am "billy bad ass" talking crap, I know them because I've been there. I'm confident I will do the right thing.

So, basically put, no jackass on the internet is going to make me believe otherwise, and as to what you believe...I really don't much care, because I already know the truth about myself.

But would you die for your principles? Oh wait, you have to have principles first, and you have none.

And apparently you do care...you care very much, you care enough to attempt to influence others here...and I firmly believe you do know the truth about yourself...that you're a spiritual coward.

I will absolutely renounce my faith (Judaism), to save my or anyone else's life. I would have zero problem with that whatsoever. And every Rabbi on the planet would tell me that would be the right thing to do. And every Rabbi would correctly assume it would mean nothing, I would still be Jewish, and God would totally understand.

Lie or die...it's an easy choice..lie.

I know Aller appreciates that, as do his devotees. You are just the fodder they're looking for.

No idea what that is supposed to mean. Life after death is not for the living to know. Life is a precious gift, not to be tossed aside lightly.

Who says? If there is nothing after then life is of no import...it's all flash and no substance. If there is, then it's but a stepping stone to greater lessons/reality. This is a black and white scenario. If it's all flash and no substance then it makes no difference whether you save the child from the burning building or let them die, throw yourself on the grenade or let your fellow soldiers die, run from battle to save yourself, or stand and die to save your comrades. And if there is nothing to follow, then only one of two beliefs is possible...God (any God, yours, mine, the many of the Greeks and Romans) is a madman and imbecile, and we but pawns in a giant game of chutes and ladders; or there is no God...period.

Honestly, most will likely call him a moron. Perhaps they will laugh uncomfortably at their own choice, but that thought will pass. Then, in less time than you would think, they would forget all about him.

I will give you that it's possible he will be remembered and become some sort of rallying figure.

Possible but highly unlikely.

Yes, that's how such sacrifices among warriors have historically played out...they've been ridiculed and forgotten, rather than avenged. Now who understands little of history?

Horseshit. Nice 180 though. But by your logic why wouldn't the death of baby Jesus be the rallying event? Perhaps because 100+ other babies already were likely killed, and it didn't change shit?

"No other option"...you are arguing that death is the best option. All of them had that option.

You really are a dumbass, aren't you? Without Moses the Jews never would have been led from slavery, the commandments never delivered. Without Jesus having been sacrificed on the cross (per Christianity) man could not be redeemed from original sin. Pivotal points in history are just that...pivotal, and God looks after the chosen. In most cases it is just you and me, dumb and dumber, and our choice as to whether we'll stand for our beliefs, with honor, or sell our souls for 30 pieces of silver. We now know which choice both of us would make.

[was_peacemaker]

You really are a dumbass, aren't you? Without Moses the Jews never would have been led from slavery, the commandments never delivered. Without Jesus having been sacrificed on the cross (per Christianity) man could not be redeemed from original sin. Pivotal points in history are just that...pivotal, and God looks after the chosen. In most cases it is just you and me, dumb and dumber, and our choice as to whether we'll stand for our beliefs, with honor, or sell our souls for 30 pieces of silver. We now know which choice both of us would make.

Without God working through Moses the Hebrews (Jews are from the the tribe of Judah, so not all Hebrews are Jews.) would have never been free. Also Judiasm doesn't share the same concept of original sin that Christianity does. So that point is invalid to Kadmos. (Sorry, Kadmos for speaking for you.)

[Kadmos]

You did, when you justified the actions of the Kapos in the camps.

No, my point was that they had no other good choice, it was that or death. The Kapo system also gave them the opportunity to help their fellow man, not just harm them.

What they individual did with that very limited power was their choice, help or hurt. Either way, the Kapo's were prisoners, victims, and occasionally survivors, just like the other people at the camp.

But would you die for your principles? Oh wait, you have to have principles first, and you have none.

I can't answer that question...simply because I do not know. I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. But I'm not going to throw away my life over something trivial.

And apparently you do care...you care very much, you care enough to attempt to influence others here...and I firmly believe you do know the truth about yourself...that you're a spiritual coward.

I don't care if others are influenced or not, I just enjoy conversation. Believe what you will, just know that I may disagree

I know Aller appreciates that, as do his devotees. You are just the fodder they're looking for.

Fodder is food...something dead. I would try to live, to not be fodder. You apparently would chose to be fodder. It's your life, but you may have people who love you and depend on you to try to stick around. Or maybe not. Maybe that's what makes it so easy for you to simply say you would puff out your chest and willingly die.

Who says? If there is nothing after then life is of no import...it's all flash and no substance. If there is, then it's but a stepping stone to greater lessons/reality. This is a black and white scenario. If it's all flash and no substance then it makes no difference whether you save the child from the burning building or let them die, throw yourself on the grenade or let your fellow soldiers die, run from battle to save yourself, or stand and die to save your comrades. And if there is nothing to follow, then only one of two beliefs is possible...God (any God, yours, mine, the many of the Greeks and Romans) is a madman and imbecile, and we but pawns in a giant game of chutes and ladders; or there is no God...period.

I'm not going to go any further into the meaning of life...or life after death. Like I said, above my pay grade. I think life is precious...if you don't, that's your business.

Yes, that's how such sacrifices among warriors have historically played out...they've been ridiculed and forgotten, rather than avenged. Now who understands little of history?

No idea what point you are trying to make. Most war dead are nameless, faceless, and overall forgotten. There are a few exceptions. For the most part, maybe we remember what happened where, but the who...only a few are really remembered.

However, lest there be any confusion, sacrifices in battle are different. If you are fighting to protect your home, or to force a peace, or even to simply protect the man on your left, then it is noble.

But the duty of a captured soldier is to survive, to not give away information, to help his comrades survive, and to attempt escape. It's not honorable to simply find a quick way to check out.

Frankly, I find that notion offensive to all prisoners of war. You are basically telling them they should have died. Do you fly a flag that says "Fuck POW's those Kapo pussies"?

You really are a dumbass, aren't you? Without Moses the Jews never would have been led from slavery, the commandments never delivered.

You are making my point. Sure those folks could have done the honorable thing (in your opinion) and not lied...and thus died. Except then they never would have gone on to do the great things they did.

How is it ok for them to lie, or even to ask another to lie for them, and thus live...but not ok for other people? Because we know the ending of their story? How does that help?

In most cases it is just you and me, dumb and dumber, and our choice as to whether we'll stand for our beliefs, with honor, or sell our souls for 30 pieces of silver.

Are you saying because we are average people and not Moses or something then we aren't supposed to look at him for guidance, or are worthy of a single lie to save our lives?

How do you know what either of us will have done by the end if we choose to live. Moses was basically an average guy before God chose him. It's that way in a lot of bible stories. Noah was a friggen drunk.

We now know which choice both of us would make.

Well, apparently you would be worm food because "you cannot tell a lie", and I might go on to free an entire people and be remembered as one of the best people to ever walk the earth.

I'll go ahead and put that one in the "win" column for me

[Hobe Sound AK]

Like I said he will be remembered! His People saw him Killed as we did. The Clowns made a bad mistake letting Executions be Filmed, The Iraqi Army will also see that. Remember the Sleeping Giant, from Tora Tora Tora! Paul

[5.56NATO]

How brave one must be to shoot prisoners. So very brave.