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Thread: Anthropogenic Solar Minimum

  1. #21
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Okay, you've convinced me.

    The earth is warming, man is responsible...we're all going to die if we don't do something.

    China, Russia, Mexico and India are not going to reduce their cow farts, Australia has just reversed their carbon tax legislation, even if the US reverts to paleolithic existence, it won't help.

    What's your answer?
    First thing's first -- we need to start building a bunch of nuclear power plants, and shutter the coal-fired ones as soon as possible. Emissions from coal-fired electricity generation account for the largest share of U.S. greenhouse gases, 38.9% of U.S. production of carbon dioxide in 2006 (with transportation emissions close behind, at 31%).

    Once we've got that squared away, we impose a modest carbon tax, and offer tax incentives (if not subsidies) for manufacturers of alternative-energy cars. (Hydrogen/fuel-cell/electric, it doesn't matter). Ultimately, the only vehicles that should still be using gas on our roads are diesel trucks.

    Doing the above alone would greatly reduce global emissions, as the U.S. alone accounts for 19% of all emissions (as of 2008). But the biggest global polluter is, of course, China. Getting them on-board is going to be a tougher sale, but they contribute 23% (as of 2008) of global emissions, so their cooperation would most helpful. With a little bit of leadership on our part, most of their leaders realize how serious a problem it is as well, and once the see us take serious action they won't feel like they are at a disadvantage taking serious action themselves. And once the world sees that the U.S. and China are serious about it, getting an international treaty passed would be much more likely.

    But much of the damage is already done. Even if we embark on greatly reducing emissions starting TOMORROW, there's still going to be a lot of fall-out for the next few decades, in the form of severe weather systems, tropical storms, and winter blizzards. Not to mention rising sea levels and coastal flooding. Ecosystems will be changing, and we'll still have to adapt.

    Sure, we may have to pay slightly more in energy costs in the short-term, but over the long-haul economies of scale should ramp up and who knows what new breakthroughs science and technology will bring to increase efficiency further.

    Or we could just keep our heads in the sand, ignore the fact that arable land is rapidly depleting, and face a crisis of food prices skyrocketing and mass-starvation and die-offs happening in the Third World and let nature do its adjustments for us, trimming back our global population a couple billion or so.

    The hardest part is getting people to look at the bigger picture, thinking long-term instead of just what affects their pocket-books today.

    So yeah, I'm not going to deny it's going to be a hard sell, at least until people see the real consequences of our inaction.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  2. #22
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC View Post
    Or we could just keep our heads in the sand, ignore the fact that arable land is rapidly depleting, and face a crisis of food prices skyrocketing and mass-starvation and die-offs happening in the Third World and let nature do its adjustments for us, trimming back our global population a couple billion or so.
    Naw, we wouldn't want to do that...

    Besides, we can just wait for unchecked HIV to mutate and infect more of the global population for all that...
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  3. #23
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Naw, we wouldn't want to do that...

    Besides, we can just wait for unchecked HIV to mutate and infect more of the global population for all that...
    Ultimately, it will probably be science that saves our asses on both accounts. Be it from sturdier inexpensive building materials that can withstand stronger weather events to "designer drugs" to deal with pesky infections.

    We wouldn't have gotten this far as a species if we didn't learn to come up with new ideas and adapt.

    One way or another, I think we'll survive the 21st century.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  4. #24
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    I would say both of those possibilities are more likely than China or India climbing aboard the global warming bandwagon and reducing carbon emissions.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Oh yeah...then there's this...

    The sun has gone quiet…solar cycle 24 continues to rank as one of the weakest cycles more than a century

    Finally, if history is a guide, it is safe to say that weak solar activity for a prolonged period of time can have a negative impact on global temperatures in the troposphere which is the bottom-most layer of Earth’s atmosphere – and where we all live. There have been two notable historical periods with decades-long episodes of low solar activity. The first period is known as the “Maunder Minimum”, named after the solar astronomer Edward Maunder, and it lasted from around 1645 to 1715. The second one is referred to as the “Dalton Minimum”, named for the English meteorologist John Dalton, and it lasted from about 1790 to 1830. Both of these historical periods coincided with below-normal global temperatures in an era now referred to by many as the “Little Ice Age”. In addition, research studies in just the past couple of decades have found a complicated relationship between solar activity, cosmic rays, and clouds on Earth. This research suggests that in times of low solar activity where solar winds are typically weak; more cosmic rays reach the Earth’s atmosphere which, in turn, has been found to lead to an increase in certain types of clouds that can act to cool the Earth.
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/07/...han-a-century/

    But no sense in allowing science to influence a good taxing scheme, eh?
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  6. #26
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    Science to an agenda is a growing industry, get in on the ground floor and make a name for yourself in fabrication science!
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  7. #27
    Team GunsNet Silver 07/2011 Sherman's Avatar

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    Make it to where no entities ( People, Corps, Governments, anything ) can receive money from global warming/climate change/climate disruption. Totally on a volunteer basis. Money can go in the pot to stop/reduce global warming, but none can come from it.

    See how fast Global warming disappears from importance.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC
    First thing's first -- we need to start building a bunch of nuclear power plants, and shutter the coal-fired ones as soon as possible.
    Nothing's going to change until we stop spinning magnets to generate usable power.
    CHOOT UM!

  9. #29
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    Speaking of Maunder minimums and globular warmins;
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  10. #30
    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    Climate change. If our lives lasted 10,000 years we might have noticed that climate is constantly changing. Some say it was a lot warmer when the dinosaurs lived, but something happened that they could not adapt to. Dinosaurs were too stupid to put on clothing when it got cold. Didn't build houses to maintain a safe place from the weather. Assuming an asteroid impact, just assuming, they couldn't figure out how to exist until the air cleared.

    And what about the last ice age that had Indiana under 5000 feet of ice? Where is that? Oh yes, global warming caused the ice age to end.

    Climate changes, and people have a hard time dealing with the USA being built around we the people run ourselves and not dictated to by a king, emperor, tsar, or other imperial leader. Climate change, all about control of we the people, and nothing to do with climate that in the big picture we can't do a darn thing about.

  11. #31
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by imanaknut View Post
    Increasing global climate temperature!!! I sure am glad we in Indiana are doing our best in mitigating the temperature rise as the last two days have been the coldest July temps in recorded history!
    On Tuesday, 7/15/14, St. Louis recorded their LOWEST high temperature since they started keeping records in 1891 !!

    Go figure!
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

  12. #32
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Naw, we wouldn't want to do that...

    Besides, we can just wait for unchecked HIV to mutate and infect more of the global population for all that...
    With the "brain drain" that occurred when those "pro-Russian separatists" shot down that Malaysian jet, HIV research has been pushed back at least two and maybe as much as ten years.
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

  13. #33
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodman View Post
    Nothing's going to change until we stop spinning magnets to generate usable power.
    It would be nice if we found a more efficient way of generating electricity.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  14. #34
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    Ya'll can cry all you want... I'm loving 78 degrees in Georgia in July!!!!!!!

  15. #35
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    72f in Southern Indiana.
    No fans, no ac, eat your heart out Duke Energy.


    (theyll make up for it next week and the weeks after)
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  16. #36
    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    On Tuesday, 7/15/14, St. Louis recorded their LOWEST high temperature since they started keeping records in 1891 !!

    Go figure!
    The phrase is climate change now. No matter if it's colder than "normal" or warmer than "normal" we need to go back to living in the stoneage, and if you generate power or use power you need to be taxed to supplement the failed policies of LAGC's comrades. It's kind of bizarre watching people like LAGC being religious....
    Last edited by 1 Patriot-of-many; 07-20-2014 at 12:47 AM.

  17. #37
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    The phrase is climate change now.
    Yep. Climate is not the same thing as weather. And the plural of anecdote is not data.

    What's at issue is the long-term trend overall, especially the warming going on over the polar ice caps.

    But I am enjoying this unseasonably cooler summer weather near the 45th parallel myself as well.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  18. #38
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    Scientists warn the Sun has 'gone to sleep' and say it could cause temperatures to plunge

    2013 was due to be year of the 'solar maximum'
    Researchers say solar activity is at a fraction of what they expect
    Conditions 'very similar' a time in 1645 when a mini ice age hit


    The Sun's activity is at its lowest for 100 years, scientists have warned.

    They say the conditions are eerily similar to those before the Maunder Minimum, a time in 1645 when a mini ice age hit, Freezing London's River Thames.

    Researcher believe the solar lull could cause major changes, and say there is a 20% chance it could lead to 'major changes' in temperatures.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz381bjZwzq



    So in that case we need globular warmins more than ever.
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  19. #39
    Gunsnet Contributor 02/14 miketx's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodman View Post
    Clearly the sun's current low ebb has been caused by the concurrent rise in man-made carbon emissions. The continuing lows of planetary temperatures (a direct result of increasing global climate temperature) threaten the star itself.
    We must reduce carbon emissions before we turn off the solar system' light source!
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/07/...han-a-century/
    DO NOT QUESTION THE SCIENCE. You are just not smart enough to understand it!
    Hey Goodman, you are an imbecile. The reason I say this is that I cannot spell dumass.
    "The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it" - George Bernard Shaw

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGC View Post
    It would be nice if we found a more efficient way of generating electricity.
    Yes agreed. IMHO this is the biggest problem we face. Induction is SO 200 years ago (well, nearly)!
    Solar isn't there (yet) and I'm pretty sure there is a simpler answer than fusion. We need a modern Tesla to help out here. THAT is the direction research dollars need to go, but as Tesla found out, free power to the world doesn't sell to the world's money people!
    CHOOT UM!

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