Thinking about building a AR pistol....

[Partisan1983]

I need advice/opinions etc.

I want it to have an OAL over 26"

I also want it to be piston driven (not DI).


What is the going price for a milspec lower registered as a "pistol" ?

[Adog]

Over 26", is that not a rifle? Or does it have to have a folding stock?...........wow that's a stupid question.

[Silentkilla01]

Over 26", is that not a rifle? Or does it have to have a folding stock?...........wow that's a stupid question.

That's what I was thinking. Don't know the length of a pistol. But my AR isn't much more than 26inches

[Schuetzenman]

face palming here.



Remember this one? It is exactly 27" on the nose. The length thing primarily pertains to rifles if I remember correctly. It isn't a rifle unless it has a buttstock. This has the Sig brace thing. Even if it didn't have it, this one would be 27" long. I shoved the brace on until it went flush to the end of the pistol buffer tube. The barrel is 10.5" from Brownell's. That is an AAC Black Out flash hider, 18 tooth model for my AAC suppressor.

Unless you build with a shorter than 10.5" barrel you are guaranteed to come out with a weapon longer than 26" in OAL. For advise on how to build it ... first I have to ask have you built an AR rifle? If you have it's the same process minus a buttstock type buffer tube. Just use a pistol buffer tube, I would recommend the KAK models that are designed to shoulder off the Sig Brace and keep it indexed back about 2 or 3". My cheek ends up on the charging handle, if I had the Sig brace back 2" it would be on the castle Nut / buffer tube. I put a list of parts and cost in one of the 4 posts, I think it was number 3 on the topic,.

http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.ph...oject-Part-III
Yep, here's the link, first post in the thread has the parts break down and the costs.

[Silentkilla01]

face palming here.



Remember this one? It is exactly 27" on the nose. The length thing primarily pertains to rifles if I remember correctly. It isn't a rifle unless it has a buttstock. This has the Sig brace thing. Even if it didn't have it, this one would be 27" long. I shoved the brace on until it went flush to the end of the pistol buffer tube. The barrel is 10.5" from Brownell's. That is an AAC Black Out flash hider, 18 tooth model for my AAC suppressor.

Unless you build with a shorter than 10.5" barrel you are guaranteed to come out with a weapon longer than 26" in OAL. For advise on how to build it ... first I have to ask have you built an AR rifle? If you have it's the same process minus a buttstock type buffer tube. Just use a pistol buffer tube, I would recommend the KAK models that are designed to shoulder off the Sig Brace and keep it indexed back about 2 or 3". My cheek ends up on the charging handle, if I had the Sig brace back 2" it would be on the castle Nut / buffer tube. I put a list of parts and cost in one of the 4 posts, I think it was number 3 on the topic,.

http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.ph...oject-Part-III
Yep, here's the link, first post in the thread has the parts break down and the costs.

Ok I measured my AR and it's 32" stock retracted so yeah. It's a little over 27" lol.

[Adog]

........wow that's a stupid question.

lol, i knew it!

Thanks for clearing that up Schuetz, sometimes my brain don't work right.

[Partisan1983]

With a pistol receiver, I want it's OAL over 26" so I can add a VFG if I want.

Schuetz, I have built quite a few AR (rifles) over the years....Never a AR "pistol", and I have never done anything with a piston system.

[Schuetzenman]

With a pistol receiver, I want it's OAL over 26" so I can add a VFG if I want.

Schuetz, I have built quite a few AR (rifles) over the years....Never a AR "pistol", and I have never done anything with a piston system.

I don't believe you can put a vertical forward pistol grip on any pistol regardless of OAL. I could be wrong, but that should make it an Any Other Weapon class NFA object. On building the physical weapon, like I said no different than a rifle with the exception of a buffer tube that doesn't have the ability to accept a buttstock. With your experience should be a Piece o Cake. Now on piston system, I've done that with 16" barreled carbines, but never any barrel shorter than 16".

Given Kimberkid's input on the Osprey Piston conversion system it won't work with anything less than 11". There are some 11.5 and 12" barrels out there that presumably will work with the Osprey. Daniel Defense has 11.5 and 12.5" barrels. Double Star makes an 11.5". I'm sure there are others out there.

[Partisan1983]

Per ATF....if under 26" it makes it a NFA AOW, and if over 26" it's just a firearm, not a pistol and not NFA. The only way to make it a SBR is to add a stock, and have a barrel less than 16"

[ready]

I think you can put a magpul AFG on regardless of OAL. I'll have to look it up, I'm going from memory.

[ready]

Yes, you can.

ATF letter on AFG on AR pistol
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/5...R_pistols.html


ATF letter about VFG on 26" OAL
http://johnpierceesq.com/?p=602

[Schuetzenman]

Yes, you can.

ATF letter on AFG on AR pistol
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/5...R_pistols.html


ATF letter about VFG on 26" OAL
http://johnpierceesq.com/?p=602

Well, learned yet another loophole with this thread. I notice the letter says a removeable barrel attachment like a flash hider doesn't count toward over all length unless permanently attached. Let me measure the Black Out flash hider. OK, it is 2.5" in length, the threads on the barrel extend up inside it about 1/2". In theory I think this means he's going to need to go with a 11.5" barrel. My barrel is 10.5, the hider makes the weapon's OAL 2" longer and that gives me a 27" over all length. Removed, the barrel alone would make the weapon 25 inches OAL. So an 11.5" should put the flash hider free OAL weapon length 26.0".

Hum, if I'd of known this gimmick before building I probably would of gone with an 11.5" barrel. Then I could do a vertical grip if I wanted to, or not and really 1 more inch of barrel isn't a deal breaker for weight or maneuvering IMO.

[Schuetzenman]

Per ATF....if under 26" it makes it a NFA AOW, and if over 26" it's just a firearm, not a pistol and not NFA. The only way to make it a SBR is to add a stock, and have a barrel less than 16"

So it's not a Pistol and it's not a Rifle. Fascinating logic they have. (rolling eyes here).

[ready]

Just like they say that a pistol is anything with a short stock designed to be shot one handed. Who the fuck shoots a pistol with one hand unless they have to? And who calls a grip a stock?

[Adog]

interesting thread.
What if the vertical front grip was the firearm, and behind it was a 22" pistol grip with an arm brace?

[Schuetzenman]

A little more input on how to get your 26" plus length. The Phase -5 Tactical is about 6 - 3/8ths inches long.

A KAK Super Sig SB-15 buffer tube is quite a bit longer. Below is taken from Kak's web site.

THIS TUBE EXTENDS FROM THE RECEIVER 8.45 FROM THE ENDPLATE

So using the Kak tube on my current 27" long Pistol would make it measure just over 29". That puts 2" back where you need it, by the shooter vs. out front as extra barrel. Food for thought.

[Schuetzenman]

Well any progress on this build?

[Partisan1983]

I am hitting a brick wall as of now...for MI sake, the lower has to be a pistol lower period.

Went to my local toy store and asked if they had any pistol lowers for sale....nope


I asked if they had any complete build pistol AR's for sale...nope


Would they order one for me....nope



So now I just have to go find a funstore who does or will.

[Schuetzenman]

I am hitting a brick wall as of now...for MI sake, the lower has to be a pistol lower period.

Went to my local toy store and asked if they had any pistol lowers for sale....nope


I asked if they had any complete build pistol AR's for sale...nope


Would they order one for me....nope



So now I just have to go find a funstore who does or will.

I guess they don't like making money!

[FunkyPertwee]

I think you just buy a virgin (never before assembled) lower receiver and have your FFL put "pistol" down on the 4473.

Or you could order this one: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ine-black.html

No mistaking that one for a rifle.