Debating a new range toy this spring...

[El Duce]

Just reread the thread title. Of all the guns I mentioned. For me, they are range "toys." All fun to own. "show off" at the range, introduce to others to shoot. Plus range time for me these days are more social than shooting. Defense it another whole different situation. Though, push comes to shove. Anything that I have can be used for any other purpose.

[Schuetzenman]

Thanks for all input here, definitely a few more options that got me looking in other ways. The M1A... Off the top rifles for SHTF list for sure (thank you schuetz, for pointing out that the face is better than the snatch), but not out of the running as a safe queen/ range toy.

Just in case you missed the fine print of what I said I will give you the condensed version.

Wood stocks = problems for the M1A for long term accuracy.
Synthetic stocks = good, no problems with accuracy change due to rain, humidity or dry environment.

That said like the M1 Garand the bolt is exposed to the elements. That said, this style bolt system did work in the sands of Africa, the South Pacific and the lands of Europe in a World War plus Korea.

[NAPOTS]

I have very limited experience here but I was always given the impression that the op rod was the weak link in the M1 Garand/M14 Rifle and that it is very sensitive to the power of the loads. I have heard this more-so with the M1 Garand than the M14.

[El Laton Caliente]

I'm surprised at the lack of love for .357 in this thread. If you don't have one, I say get yourself a vintage Smith.

As far as a .308 goes, I'd look at one of the newer PTR rifles, like this one for $999:


http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ptr-91-a3s-308-rifle2014-07-29-03-31-34-detail.html?Itemid=0

These are made in SC now.

I have four rifles in this genre. They can be addicting... Accuracy is as good as most .308s except match M1A1s and match AR10s and they hold up really well. Mags are still cheap. They eat cheap steel case for plinking. About the only draw back is they are rough on cases for reloading; it can be done, but cases will get fewer reloads.

Considering the original HK91s are going for as much as the $3K range, the PTR91 is reasonably priced at +/-$1K, under for some models and when on sale.

[Schuetzenman]

I have very limited experience here but I was always given the impression that the op rod was the weak link in the M1 Garand/M14 Rifle and that it is very sensitive to the power of the loads. I have heard this more-so with the M1 Garand than the M14.

It is a little bit more complex than saying the Op-rod is a weakness. It simply comes down to the gas system being designed to work with ammo within a range of pressure and bullet weight. The M1 Garand can function with 150 to 175 gr. bullets provided the correct powder and charge weight are used. Medium burn rate powders such as 4064, 4895, (the original powder for it) even Varget suffice. I've loaded 168 gr. Sierra's for the M1 using 4064 and Varget. You just have to keep the speeds around 2700 fps more or less. If one overloads on powder or uses a heavier bullet than 175 the receiver can be battered to the extent the heal of the receiver can be broken out.

The M1A uses a short stroke piston (like the M1 Carbine) It is very versatile in what it can digest as far as military surplus ammo. Again it is limited on bullet weight and powder burn rates or battering of the receiver can occur and the back of the receiver broken out. Neither weapon likes fast powder like 3031 as it has a short burn impulse and could result in short stroking the action causing failure to cycle fully and eject the spent case.

[ltorlo64]

If you go with a 1911 I would look at other manufacturers than Kimber. Kimber makes a great pistol, I had the opportunity to shoot one and it made me look good! That said, you pay a lot for the name. I have a Springfield I like a lot and I have read very good things about Rock River Armory as well. If you don't want to get a new caliber Springfield is making a 1911 Range Officer in 9mm which I keep looking at. The only real issue I have with it a 1911 in 9mm is, well, it is a 1911 in 9mm and it should be in .45 ACP!

[Helen Keller]

It is a little bit more complex than saying the Op-rod is a weakness.

biggest goof up was when they replaced the beaten/broken stock on an M1 most of the time they didnt fit it properly. Resulting in dicked up op-rods.







Rock island 1911's cant be beat. If you feel the need , spend a few bucks and upgrade a part here/there.

[ready]

Rock island 1911's cant be beat. If you feel the need , spend a few bucks and upgrade a part here/there.

That's the way to do it. The knowledge gained on building and hand fitting your own 1911 is invaluable. I jacked up a few parts in the learning process but it's all part of the game. Gives you a new appreciation for the platform when it's all done.

[Helen Keller]

Lots of used RIA 1911's are starting to pop up ( probably the price of .45 ammo) .. A used 1911 for $300-350 + a new trigger/hammer setup and you'll have the same performance as a $800-1000 1911.

[Aggressive Perfector]

^I'll have to look into this... Especially since I like tinkering with my guns so damn much, a used less expensive model may very well be just the ticket to making a separate hobby out of 1911's alone.

And yes, Itorlo, if I'm gonna have a 1911 it's gonna be .45. 1911 in 9MM Luger might be nice for ammo commonality, but a 9mm 1911 is just... wrong. If I were to try that route I'd just get a beretta 92FS.

Schuetzenman, I know what you mean, but I overlooked the bolt being exposed to the elements (which you kindly pointed out). In a SHTF gun, I'd rather such thing be a "non issue". This is a military proven design, and by most reading I've done on it, it still sees some service to this day and those who use them love them. Though not without its set backs (like any other weapon platform), it does seem to be a reasonably good choice. However, a portion of my interest in the rifle is in its beauty. A synthetic stock stock ruins this aspect, and if I leave it wooden and purdy as I'd like to, accuracy suffers. I put the synthetic stock on, accuracy improves and... I get another black rifle in the safe. Might as well just use an AK platform if I'm just gonna wind up with an aesthetically pleasing over priced bullet hose. Also, as was pointed out, a well built AR10 could perform every bit as well if not better at half the cost.

So my conclusion on the M1A is- Possible safe queen and fun at the range gun, not a first choice SHTF rifle by any means. No gun can be suited for every task every time, but there are better platforms out there for less money that suit the purpose just as well or better.

[FunkyPertwee]

1911 in 9MM Luger might be nice for ammo commonality, but a 9mm 1911 is just... wrong. If I were to try that route I'd just get a beretta 92FS.

Ever considered a CZ-75? Its pretty much the modernized 1911 in my opinion. The classic models are sweet to shoot and own, and there is the SP-01 of you want a railed version with night sights. They are very classy pistols and look good with wooden grips or done up completely tactical with g-10 grips, night sights, and light. Traditional CZs can be had for $475-525, while the SP-01 is about $600. The Turkish clones are supposed to be nice, however the grip geometry is different, they lack the 1911 style beavertail on the tactical CZs, and their are no night sights available for the Turks (AFAIK).

For a budget 1911, the Bersa / Firestorm / Metro-arms "American Classic II" 1911 is pretty much a Colt 70's series clone from the Philippines. Similar in value to the RIA Tactical, but with a much nicer polished blue finish with anti-glare top-strap. I had the opportunity to fire one a few years ago, and the trigger was super sweet and the gun was finished very nicely. And they go for about $450.

[Partisan1983]

I love battle rifles, they will always hold a special place in my heart.

That being said I sold my Springfield NM M1A years ago. If I ever get another M14, it will be a LRB Arms