Just had one of my former Soldiers make the news...

[Woogiebear]

The jack ass got busted for heroin and robbing two banks at gun point somewhere in Massachusetts. He started having issues before his last deployment with drinking. His command tried to help him at the time and he seemed to get better. Then he had some issues while on deployment that kind of got swept under the rug. When his team got back he seemed to have straightened out. Still drank a little, according to him, but he really improved. Hell, by the time I got to the team they had started grooming for promotion. Then he just starts screwing up. We tried to help him, mentor him. He just didn't care. He would pay us lip service, tell us he would turn things around, then the next day we would be taking him to the MP station at 0800 for a Breathalyzer. He stopped coming to formations on time, wouldn't shave, crappy uniform. A couple of times he didn't show up for a couple of days. We were finally able to get him out of the Army a little over a month ago.
There are three things that really pissed me off when I saw this.
1: my command and I pushed hard for an "other than Honorable" discharge. We had a paper trail a mile and a half long and Legal said it wasn't enough.
2: He is wearing his Dive shirt in court. If I were there I would see if the bailiff could make him flip it inside out. It may seem like nothing to most of you but those shirts are a matter of pride to us in the Army Dive field and to see one being worn by a dirt bag in cuffs makes me sick.
3: I was his instructor at Phase 1. I worked with him, spent many hours training him, pushed him to keep trying, not to give up. Told him that all the stress and pain and effort were worth it. He listened to me and made it. I was very proud when he passed because there were several times he wanted to quit because he was struggling. But he listened to me and made it. Now to see him as he is makes me sad. It really does.
Not sure why I am bringing it up to you guys. Maybe its because most of my guys think its a big joke and I can't really relate to them. this makes me furious. It totally ruined my day. And what makes it even worse is I only have 1 beer left.
I don't know if the link will work but you can google it.


http://m.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs...emplate=wapart

[ltorlo64]

I think I some understanding of what you are feeling. I have had a couple of my sailors that I expended much time and effort on just give up. It is always disheartening. You need to remember, though, that there was nothing more you could do. This soldier made the decisions, despite many people trying to help him, that lead to this. Think about the other soldiers who you have lead and mentored that are being successful whether they stayed in or got out. The one that gives up always hurt, but that is not the measure of your success.

[N/A]

I'll only add my opinion as a vet...you don't know what caused this problem. By pushing for an other than honorable, you guaranteed he could not get any kind of medical or mental help from the VA. Big screw up...that may have been the only way he
Could get help.

[Gunner1558]

Match this one against your record of successes.

You can't win them all!

[ltorlo64]

I'll only add my opinion as a vet...you don't know what caused this problem. By pushing for an other than honorable, you guaranteed he could not get any kind of medical or mental help from the VA. Big screw up...that may have been the only way he
Could get help.

When someone is not acting in an honorable way they do not deserve an honorable discharge. He had opportunity to ask for help that would have allowed him to receive the honorable discharge but he choose to act dishonorably. An honorable discharge is not hard to obtain, but it does require effort and it is not just given away no matter what.

[N/A]

Oh, I think I know about discharges. I think I know now that they are coming to recognize that a lot of Viet Nam combat that screwed up and got dishonorable, pr less than honorable, suffered from PTSD to a large degree. But PTSD wasn't recognized back then. So they were denied VA medical care or compensation.

When a good soldier goes bad there usually is an underlying reason. Unless you are a Dr you won't always see it. A bad soldier will be a fuck-up from the get go.

Those brother vets of mine kicked out and denied VA benefits, would today be eligible for VA help. As it is, many of them ended up dead by their own hands.

[ltorlo64]

Oh, I think I know about discharges. I think I know now that they are coming to recognize that a lot of Viet Nam combat that screwed up and got dishonorable, pr less than honorable, suffered from PTSD to a large degree. But PTSD wasn't recognized back then. So they were denied VA medical care or compensation.

When a good soldier goes bad there usually is an underlying reason. Unless you are a Dr you won't always see it. A bad soldier will be a fuck-up from the get go.

Those brother vets of mine kicked out and denied VA benefits, would today be eligible for VA help. As it is, many of them ended up dead by their own hands.

One of the things we do now is to refer troubled soldiers, sailors, and marines to medical, psychological, and spiritual counseling, whatever we can get them to do. We are told that we are not Drs and to get our people the help they need. They cannot be forced to accept the help, however.

I know this as one of my sailors that quit was found hanging from his belt, after we had gotten him to psychiatric help.

[ltorlo64]

Oh, I think I know about discharges. I think I know now that they are coming to recognize that a lot of Viet Nam combat that screwed up and got dishonorable, pr less than honorable, suffered from PTSD to a large degree. But PTSD wasn't recognized back then. So they were denied VA medical care or compensation.

When a good soldier goes bad there usually is an underlying reason. Unless you are a Dr you won't always see it. A bad soldier will be a fuck-up from the get go.

Those brother vets of mine kicked out and denied VA benefits, would today be eligible for VA help. As it is, many of them ended up dead by their own hands.

I am not defending what was done in the past, or even what we do wrong now. For the most part I think leaders (Leading Petty Officer, Chiefs, SGTs and officers) try to help our people and we have made much progress. I am also not going to say someone is wrong when the person refuses help and requires discipline.

One thing we are starting to see more of is people who know they are going to get in trouble do claim psychiatric problems hoping this will keep them from being disciplined. When they do this it makes it harder for us to get people who really need help, help. It also makes it hard to maintain good order and discipline when every decision made is able to be brought into question just by someone saying they are depressed.

[N/A]

That's as it should be...leave no man behind.

[N/A]

BTW...there are scammers in everything. They're easy to spot. What to do with them is easy. It's what to do or not do with the others that is tough.

[ltorlo64]

BTW...there are scammers in everything. They're easy to spot. What to do with them is easy. It's what to do or not do with the others that is tough.

That is very true.

[Woogiebear]

All the resources that were available to this guy were offered. He was command referred to ASAP for his drinking problem. His squad leader and I talked to him about keeping his nose clean and how we were going to help him through this process. He confessed that he might have a problem, but then only lasted a few days in the program. By this time nothing was his fault (according to him). Everyone was out to get him from the top down. He got lucky after he had his drivers license revoked. Went driving off base, drunk, and hit a city snow plow. The police who showed up on the scene got his drivers license but the revocation was not in the system yet. They let him go. His truck was impounded and we found out he was drunk from one of my Soldiers who went to pick him up. The chain never learned about this incident until about a month later when the impound yard called the office asking when he was going to get his truck. When confronted, he got defensive and couldn't figure out why we were in his business. I have dozens of stories like this about him. We gave him every opportunity to get help. He never opened up to us. Even guys who knew him all the way back to basic didn't know him any more. Our deployments are not exactly tough anymore so I doubt it was PTSD, unless he just couldn't handle being without booze and that's what caused it. I know what happened to him is not my fault and I do have a lot of successes under my belt as far as my Soldiers are concerned. It just sucks that it happened to even one of my Soldiers. As far as the Honorable Discharge thing goes, he lost that honor and privilege a while back. Right around the time he was having his fellow Soldiers try and lie to the command about hospital appointments he made for his knee pain. We found out later he was splitting meds with his girlfriend.

[rktman]

You sound like i feel, a father in pain for his wayward son. Good luck and keep caring for him, you might be the only person he has left that gives a damn.

[N/A]

Woogiebear, I'll give you that he sounds like a fuck-up, but not always one. I'll also give you two men my admiration for standing by your men. Being on this side of the "discharge", I'd say try the best to preserve their rights to VA care later in life. I got out in 1971 and it was 2000 before I ever walked into a VA hospital/clinic. Now, it's all I have or can afford.

[studmuffin]

What an idiot. You did your best sir, count your successes and move on. He is a grown boy and made his own decisions