Sense when is this a felony?

[studmuffin]

Now mind you, I am not a neck tatted psycho. My hair maybe short, but that is a hair style decision, and not a politcal statement. I do not hate any group just as a group, but I can stare back at any individual who hates me. But I have to ask, sense when is it a felony in florida to teach someone how to shoot beyond elmer fudd duck hunting? If you read the article, the defendent pled guilty and the prosecutor proved nothing in court. My next question is how does this apply to paintball or airsoft. My take in this florida paramilitary training act is unconstitutional nonsense. Little better than punishing thought crime! No violence was ever actually done, just so called training for it!



OSCEOLA COUNTY, Fla. -
The accused leader of a white supremacist group in Osceola County was found guilty on Friday of paramilitary training.





Faella was accused of conducting paramilitary training to prepare his American Front followers for a race war in Central Florida.




He was convicted of two counts of paramilitary training, a third-degree felony. Faella could face up to 10 years in prison.

On Thursday, a judge threw out charges that Faella conspired to shoot up a building and helped arm a convicted felon, fellow member Christopher Brooks.

The judge kept charges that accuse Faella of training American Front followers to incite a race war.

Both the state and defense wrapped up their closing arguments on Friday morning and the jury received the case just before noon.

The jurors came back with several questions, reviewing numerous videos that they wanted to see again.

Faella will be sentenced Nov. 10.



http://www.clickorlando.com/news/clo...trial/28029086

[5.56NATO]

As I recall it's also illegal in Iowa, and can't use human shaped targets unless you're a police officer or some such.

[Gunner1558]

As I recall it's also illegal in Iowa, and can't use human shaped targets unless you're a police officer or some such.

No human shaped targets?

How do we train anyone to kill zombies?

[rci2950]

No human shaped targets?

How do we train anyone to kill zombies?

pretty sure thats the point of the zombie crap

[Kadmos]

Thought I would come in and debunk another crazy ass news story that was twisted and blown way out of proportion by some of our more paranoid members...

But apparently I don't get to do that

790.29 Paramilitary training; teaching or participation prohibited.—
(1) This act shall be known and may be cited as the “State Antiparamilitary Training Act.”
(2) As used in this section, the term “civil disorder” means a public disturbance involving acts of violence by an assemblage of three or more persons, which disturbance causes an immediate danger of, or results in, damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual within the United States.
(3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) Whoever assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to unlawfully employ the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prohibit any act of a law enforcement officer which is performed in connection with the lawful performance of his or her official duties or to prohibit the training or teaching of the use of weapons to be used for hunting, recreation, competition, self-defense or the protection of one’s person or property, or other lawful use.
History.—s. 1, ch. 82-5; s. 164, ch. 83-216; s. 1220, ch. 97-102.

Yep, that's Florida law.

The key here is "intending to unlawfully employ the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States".

So basically you can teach someone to shoot, but if you are doing it with the intent that they may engage in civil disorder then it's a felony.

[studmuffin]

Thought I would come in and debunk another crazy ass news story that was twisted and blown way out of proportion by some of our more paranoid members...

But apparently I don't get to do that



Yep, that's Florida law.

The key here is "intending to unlawfully employ the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States".

So basically you can teach someone to shoot, but if you are doing it with the intent that they may engage in civil disorder then it's a felony.

How does the arresting officer or jury for the matter know what is in the accused head when involved in such training? Was the said training for self defence or civil disorder? How does one differentiate between the two? Is there a difference between the two? Since when is teaching or training to do something a felony. Hey, what if I studied hard, obtained and mastered the blueprints, physics and technology of making H bombs, yet I never actually build an H bomb. According to this law I can be made a felon for conspiring to make H bombs without ever actually doing the deed.

Way to many questions, and as I have stated, it bounds down to conviction of thought crimes. There is no moral or legal defense to this bullshit statute.

[Kadmos]

How does the arresting officer or jury for the matter know what is in the accused head when involved in such training? Was the said training for self defence or civil disorder? How does one differentiate between the two? Is there a difference between the two? Since when is teaching or training to do something a felony. Hey, what if I studied hard, obtained and mastered the blueprints, physics and technology of making H bombs, yet I never actually build an H bomb. According to this law I can be made a felon for conspiring to make H bombs without ever actually doing the deed.

Way to many questions, and as I have stated, it bounds down to conviction of thought crimes. There is no moral or legal defense to this bullshit statute.

Conspiracy generally requires an "overt act", something that goes beyond just thinking or talking about it. Getting blueprints of an H bomb wouldn't be enough, buying components probably would be, particularly if they are "specialized components". Although blueprints to a bomb, and blueprints for the target also might be enough. It's going to come down to the jury.

Apparently the jury decided there was enough. It did mention they had questions and wanted to review some video.

I'm mixed on this one. If you found four Muslim males in a shitty apartment with plans for a bomb, you would want them in prison, yes?

There is a point at which thought and planning become imminent action, and it's good to have a way to stop that before something actually "kicks off".

But, as you say, it gets into "thought crimes", and that road would lead to potentially serious limits on civil rights.

[studmuffin]

I am sure the fore assholes convicted probably were racists dirtbags with neck tats. My point is that such vague legislation could be used against anybody teaching and learning at a gun range. Never mind the numerous civilian training academies like Gunsite, Massad Ayoobs lethal force institute, Gabe Saurez's courses, that teach way beyond basic marksmanship. Students who attend these schools range from honest law abiding civilians who want to learn how to defend themselves to Military/LEO and overseas operators. People who clearly are not criminals, yet according to this florida law, they are!

So if I am a florida resident and I obtain a training video or book from any of those noted instructors, am I a potential felon? How do they prove that I intending to commit civil disorder. Better yet define civil disorder. That could mean anything. Way to vague and general, wide open for blatent abuse by an abusive authoritarian state.

[Kadmos]

I am sure the fore assholes convicted probably were racists dirtbags with neck tats. My point is that such vague legislation could be used against anybody teaching and learning at a gun range. Never mind the numerous civilian training academies like Gunsite, Massad Ayoobs lethal force institute, Gabe Saurez's courses, that teach way beyond basic marksmanship. Students who attend these schools range from honest law abiding civilians who want to learn how to defend themselves to Military/LEO and overseas operators. People who clearly are not criminals, yet according to this florida law, they are!

So if I am a florida resident and I obtain a training video or book from any of those noted instructors, am I a potential felon? How do they prove that I intending to commit civil disorder. Better yet define civil disorder. That could mean anything. Way to vague and general, wide open for blatent abuse by an abusive authoritarian state.

It doesn't make them into criminals just for teaching, they also have to have the intent of doing it to aid in unlawful acts of civil disorder.

It's one of those things where the systems usually works because DA's won't prosecute unless they are sure they can sell it to a jury.

But yeah, it's awfully close to that line we really don't want the government to cross.

[Phil125]

(3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Wouldn't that make every karate school in Florida illegal?

[L1A1Rocker]

(3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Wouldn't that make every karate school in Florida illegal?

VERY bad law!

[Kadmos]

(3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Wouldn't that make every karate school in Florida illegal?

Nope.

(3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

You just gotta bold the right part

[Krupski]

No human shaped targets?

How do we train anyone to kill zombies?

Use real people targets.

When they ask why you killed him, just say "the assholes wouldn't let me use a picture for a target, so I had no choice".

Makes about as much sense as gun free school zones, right?

[Krupski]

I am sure the fore assholes convicted probably were racists dirtbags with neck tats.

WTF is a "racist dirtbag"? Certainly not some white guy?

Blacks are the most rabid, overt and nasty racists there are. They hate whites and they don't mind saying so (not to mention getting away with racist hate speech, racist organizations like "NAACP", racist media like "Black Entertainment Television" and criminally racist scum like Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Oprah Winfrey, Eric Holder, of course Obama and his American-Flag-hating "wife"). Yup, rabid racist hatred is okie-dokie for them.

But a white guy can tell his white daughter "I want you to marry a white guy" and HE'S a "white supremacist" and HE'S a "racist"? Dear God if he's got a decent haircut, they'll call him a "skinhead" too!

Hell, a qualified white guy can get hired over a qualified black guy and right away it's "discrimination".

But take an illiterate chimp with the ghetto "accent" and hire HIM over an actually qualified white guy and it's called "Affirmative Action".

I'm sick to death of it all. Now they have a fucking America hating muslim sucking chimp president with a gorilla for a wife and until recently a rabidly racist attorney general and they're STILL not satisfied.

In fact, they're EMPOWERED to display their raw hatred of whites more than they ever were.

Knockout games, riots, looting, arson, drugs, murder.... all OK because of "Post Traumatic Slavery Disorder" and how it's not their fault because us white people "be keepin dem down" and "owe them reparations".

If things are so damn bad for "African Americans" (most of whom are more generations American than I am), and if they think "African" is their "heritage" then why don't they just go to Africa and be happy?

OH I know why... then there wouldn't be anyone to work to pay for their welfare checks and obongo-care while they sit on the porch, eat fried chicken and watermelon and smoke dope while making drug deals on their free obama-phones that we pay for.

Notice I didn't say go BACK to Africa... because they've never been there. Nor have their mother or sperm donor been there. Or their grandmother or grand sperm donor. Hell most of them don't even know that Africa is a CONTINENT and not a COUNTRY.

Am I a racist? Yeah, but could never be as much as they are if I tried.

Fuck them.

[Goodman]

The temperature in the frog's pot just went up a couple of degrees

[Krupski]

(3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Wouldn't that make every karate school in Florida illegal?

The key phrase is "intending that....will be unlawfully employed".

Not that I'm defending that law in any way. It's merely a tool for the .gov to use against anyone they feel the need to screw over

There's no way to prove "intent", but when did law, morality and common sense mean anything in America lately?

That is why NO MATTER WHAT WE MUST NEVER EVER SURRENDER OUR GUNS.
When the government crosses the line that they think they can waltz over, we will need them.

[Krupski]

The temperature in the frog's pot just went up a couple of degrees

What the government seemingly fails to realize is that it's not a frog they're trying to boil...

[studmuffin]

The temperature in the frog's pot just went up a couple of degrees

YUUUUUUUP

[studmuffin]

WTF is a "racist dirtbag"? Certainly not some white guy?

Blacks are the most rabid, overt and nasty racists there are. They hate whites and they don't mind saying so (not to mention getting away with racist hate speech, racist organizations like "NAACP", racist media like "Black Entertainment Television" and criminally racist scum like Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Oprah Winfrey, Eric Holder, of course Obama and his American-Flag-hating "wife"). Yup, rabid racist hatred is okie-dokie for them.

But a white guy can tell his white daughter "I want you to marry a white guy" and HE'S a "white supremacist" and HE'S a "racist"? Dear God if he's got a decent haircut, they'll call him a "skinhead" too!

Hell, a qualified white guy can get hired over a qualified black guy and right away it's "discrimination".

But take an illiterate chimp with the ghetto "accent" and hire HIM over an actually qualified white guy and it's called "Affirmative Action".

I'm sick to death of it all. Now they have a fucking America hating muslim sucking chimp president with a gorilla for a wife and until recently a rabidly racist attorney general and they're STILL not satisfied.

In fact, they're EMPOWERED to display their raw hatred of whites more than they ever were.

Knockout games, riots, looting, arson, drugs, murder.... all OK because of "Post Traumatic Slavery Disorder" and how it's not their fault because us white people "be keepin dem down" and "owe them reparations".

If things are so damn bad for "African Americans" (most of whom are more generations American than I am), and if they think "African" is their "heritage" then why don't they just go to Africa and be happy?

OH I know why... then there wouldn't be anyone to work to pay for their welfare checks and obongo-care while they sit on the porch, eat fried chicken and watermelon and smoke dope while making drug deals on their free obama-phones that we pay for.

Notice I didn't say go BACK to Africa... because they've never been there. Nor have their mother or sperm donor been there. Or their grandmother or grand sperm donor. Hell most of them don't even know that Africa is a CONTINENT and not a COUNTRY.

Am I a racist? Yeah, but could never be as much as they are if I tried.

Fuck them.

Hate goes both ways and can be very corrosive. I would rather focus on the important things in my life while improving myself. My motto is every day you learn something is a day worth getting out of bed.

[Aggressive Perfector]

I'm curious, what is the evidence that this man or his cronies had any intention of causing a "civil disturbance"? I've met a lot of white nationalists in my short time in this world. Most of them prep for "RAHOWA", next to none of them intend to instigate it, either due to some degree of intelligence (they know they lack numbers), no balls, or because they are felons who can't practice with their firearms because they can't risk being caught with them.