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Thread: Top 10 problems with the theory of evolution.

  1. #121
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Mankind observed this change and recorded it? That type of bird was completely unknown, then came into being within the midst of men?
    No, I'd imagine the finches evolved long before Darwin ever came upon them, as they had already well-adapted to their respective new environments.

    Evolution tends to take place on timescales far longer than the average human's lifetime, although there have been notable exceptions.

    Consider the lizards of Pod Mrcaru:



    Or if you want a more practical example, look no further than the bacterium Escherichia coli (E. coli) of which bacteriologists use as a "model organism" in the lab, precisely because of its very rapid regeneration time.

    There have been experiments on E. coli, all taken from one ancestral generation, separated into different flasks and fed the same exact "broth" (consisting of glucose and other nutrients), repeated day after day over tens of thousands of generations, where in one flask the bacteria evolved to be able to digest not just the usual glucose in the broth, but citrate as well. In that flask, and that flask only, their population levels exploded -- in that generation, and every generation following.

    Again: all taken from the same ancestral strain, separated and allowed to just "do their thing", evolution happening before our very eyes.

    Or do you mean based upon the interpretation of fossil evidence? Or by simply comparing the habitats and relative distance of living birds?
    The biggest tool biologists now have in their arsenal is the molecular clock -- analyzing different species' genomes and comparing them over time.

    That's how they've been able to piece together much of the evolutionary pathways, especially in areas where the fossil evidence is lacking.

    That's also how they've been able to confirm that humans evolved from the same ancestral primate as our closest cousins the chimpanzees, which share 98% of our DNA.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

  2. #122
    Senior Member Full Otto's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by was_peacemaker View Post
    I will look into this more but I hope this helps.
    yeah it did no need to do more at least for me
    I just wanted to know if it had some merit
    First heard of it from an unlikely source, a good ol boy Arkansas preacher who was also into eighth day creation stuff
    Some of that goes back to early white supremacy groups which he distanced himself from
    I've since heard it from a lot of other places so was just hoping for a little back up for my own thinking
    Thanks
    For peace of mind, resign as general manager of the universe

  3. #123
    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    After reading all of this I have one comment and a quote.

    The comment is that my understanding of evolution is that the transition from one species to another takes place gradually over a long period of time, i.e., from one generation to the next you only have change within a species. Therefore, demands from people who do not believe in evolution to demonstrate/show the instant creation of a new species are not realistic. I confess that the only thing I remember from freshman biology is two words - "Phylum Chordata."

    My quote is from Joseph Campbell - IMHO the best known expert in comparative mythology.

    "Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."

  4. #124
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    After reading all of this I have one comment and a quote.

    The comment is that my understanding of evolution is that the transition from one species to another takes place gradually over a long period of time, i.e., from one generation to the next you only have change within a species. Therefore, demands from people who do not believe in evolution to demonstrate/show the instant creation of a new species are not realistic. I confess that the only thing I remember from freshman biology is two words - "Phylum Chordata."

    My quote is from Joseph Campbell - IMHO the best known expert in comparative mythology.

    "Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."
    How does a species gradually get a new chromosome?
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  5. #125
    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krupski View Post
    IF God cares a rats-ass about humans, then He also cares equally as much about every other life form in the universe (ALL of which are His creation).
    I ask Bible thumpers why God created Ebola but for some reason I don't get an answer. It is interesting to me that people not only believe in a God that gives a rat's ass about humans, they believe he actually performs 24/7 monitoring of each individual providing protection or punishment on a daily basis.

  6. #126
    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    How does a species gradually get a new chromosome?
    My understanding is that chromosomes can change in number during an error in cell division. However, I am not sure such a change would result in a new species - rather just a mutation. With respect to evolution I don't have to fully understand nuances to believe in it - I accept the overall verdict of science.

    My question for you is why did God create Ebola?

  7. #127
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    My understanding is that chromosomes can change in number during an error in cell division. However, I am not sure such a change would result in a new species - rather just a mutation. With respect to evolution I don't have to fully understand nuances to believe in it - I accept the overall verdict of science.

    My question for you is why did God create Ebola?
    You'd have to ask a religious expert. I'm just a skeptic on the internet.

    I know that when I pray to God I receive personal comfort. What do you get from Darwinism?
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  8. #128
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    I ask Bible thumpers why God created Ebola but for some reason I don't get an answer. It is interesting to me that people not only believe in a God that gives a rat's ass about humans, they believe he actually performs 24/7 monitoring of each individual providing protection or punishment on a daily basis.
    There are tons of people who fall between atheism and a belief in the personal God. How could not be aware of that? Or are you simply letting hatred for "bible thumpers" trump your objective reasoning?

    Also, no one in Christianity should be claiming that what they believe is a provable fact, which is something the Darwinist do claim.

    If you'd like to admit that you simply have faith in evolution, thats cool with me. What you force yourself into believing is your business.
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  9. #129
    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    You'd have to ask a religious expert. I'm just a skeptic on the internet.

    I know that when I pray to God I receive personal comfort. What do you get from Darwinism?
    GMO foods?

    I have to make one final somewhat related comment -- I just had a 70s flashback to Conway's Game of Life which I think I first saw programed to run on an 8080 processor.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life

  10. #130
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    GMO foods?
    You can't study genetics without believing in the unprovable?
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  11. #131
    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    There are tons of people who fall between atheism and a belief in the personal God. How could not be aware of that? Or are you simply letting hatred for "bible thumpers" trump your objective reasoning?

    Also, no one in Christianity should be claiming that what they believe is a provable fact, which is something the Darwinist do claim.

    If you'd like to admit that you simply have faith in evolution, thats cool with me. What you force yourself into believing is your business.
    Not hatred - more like frustration. A lot of my family members are thumpers and I get tired of conversion attempts (for me to see the light) or being told I will go to hell because I am not a thumper.

  12. #132
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    Not hatred - more like frustration. A lot of my family members are thumpers and I get tired of conversion attempts (for me to see the light) or being told I will go to hell because I am not a thumper.
    Take it up with them.

    The only religious posts I've made in this thread have been in response to questions.
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  13. #133
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