Car plows through protesters during Ferguson rally in south Minneapolis

[LAGC]

We're paying for you regardless.

Only $180/month for my Obamacare premium tax credit, and that's only if I decide to renew it next year. I'm seriously considering just saying "fuck it" though and splurging on a 4K monitor for X-mas instead.

But if your "sorry ass" is locked up, then we won't additionally have to read your crap.

You'd actually be surprised at how easy it is to get a smartphone w/Internet access smuggled inside these days, and it ain't by prisoners "keistering" them either. So many corrupt guards and healthcare/social workers...

Some prisons are even going to the extreme of installing cell phone jamming technology just to deal with the problem of so many "shot-callers" being able to run their criminal enterprises, both inside and outside of those walls.

[Krupski]

Only $180/month for my Obamacare premium tax credit, and that's only if I decide to renew it next year. I'm seriously considering just saying "fuck it" though and splurging on a 4K monitor for X-mas instead.

Any amount is "only" if it's not coming out of your pocket.

Like my daughter... "Can you buy me One Direction tickets? They're ONLY $150"

Yeah, ONLY 150.

[LAGC]

Any amount is "only" if it's not coming out of your pocket.

Good point. You're right, that is a lot per month if I had to pay for it all myself. $70/month is one thing, but $250/month? Just for "bankruptcy protection" which is all health insurance really is?

But look at the bright side: your share of my tax credit is probably only a fraction of a penny or whatever to the IRS each year. So if you'd like me to mail you a penny or PayPal you $0.01, just tell me where to send it.

[Oswald Bastable]

Good point. You're right, that is a lot per month if I had to pay for it all myself. $70/month is one thing, but $250/month? Just for "bankruptcy protection" which is all health insurance really is?

But look at the bright side: your share of my tax credit is probably only a fraction of a penny or whatever to the IRS each year. So if you'd like me to mail you a penny or PayPal you $0.01, just tell me where to send it.

Always good as long as Peter can be robbed for the sake of Paul...right? Especially when you're Paul?

By the way, ten years ago I was paying over $500 a month for coverage for myself and my two kids, with a salary of less than 25k a year...so you can choke on your subsidized $70/month savings, Paul.

[Krupski]

Good point. You're right, that is a lot per month if I had to pay for it all myself. $70/month is one thing, but $250/month? Just for "bankruptcy protection" which is all health insurance really is?

But look at the bright side: your share of my tax credit is probably only a fraction of a penny or whatever to the IRS each year. So if you'd like me to mail you a penny or PayPal you $0.01, just tell me where to send it.

Maybe YOUR share of MY income is "only" 1 cent, but so is every other moocher that I pay for. Cents add up to dollars which add up to thousands of dollars.

Why should I pay for someone else? I gotta pay my OWN bills, nobody throws in their pennies for ME.

Give me ONE good reason why I should pay for someone else?

[LAGC]

Always good as long as Peter can be robbed for the sake of Paul...right? Especially when you're Paul?

I kind of liken it to that Richard Pryor character in Superman 3, I think it was... something about taking the fractions of cents from interest compounding in bank accounts and moving them all to a "dummy" account, which of course multiplied by several million times turns into quite the motherlode.

Nah, seriously though, like I've said before: I don't see how I'm really coming out ahead here. $70/month is close to $800/year. $800/year that I wasn't contributing before. And what am I really getting out of it? A free flu shot? A free "wellness check?"

And should something catastrophic happen, I'd be out an additional $1000, whereas if I had no insurance at all, the hospital indigent fund would cover it, which of course comes out of everyone else's property taxes or whatever.

So I'm not really seeing how I'm coming out ahead here... indeed, regardless of scenario, I'm paying a lot more IN to the system than I would be by just foregoing insurance altogether. But you're here saying I'm a "taker" whereas I wouldn't be if I opted out?

By the way, ten years ago I was paying over $500 a month for coverage for myself and my two kids, with a salary of less than 25k a year...so you can choke on your subsidized $70/month savings, Paul.

Well, it's not my fault you chose to have kids. Considering how it has been estimated that it costs over $200K to raise a child from 0 to 18 these days (not even including any money squirreled away for college), that is one expense I'm glad to have avoided.

Ask yourself this: would have you still paid that much out in insurance month-to-month if getting your kids coverage wasn't a factor?

[LAGC]

Maybe YOUR share of MY income is "only" 1 cent, but so is every other moocher that I pay for. Cents add up to dollars which add up to thousands of dollars.

Why should I pay for someone else? I gotta pay my OWN bills, nobody throws in their pennies for ME.

Give me ONE good reason why I should pay for someone else?

Well, arguably because its cheaper. The whole theory here is that with free preventative care and check-ups, serious ailments and diseases can be detected and treated early, saving many, many billions of healthcare dollars over the long-term.

Even the GAO has said that Obamacare -- warts, wrickles, and all -- is expected to cut over half a trillion dollars from the national debt over the next 10 years, for this very reason.

That may not benefit your pocket book so much in the here and now, but definitely your kids, in all the saved compounded interest on that long-term debt.

[Oswald Bastable]

Nah, seriously though, like I've said before: I don't see how I'm really coming out ahead here. $70/month is close to $800/year. $800/year that I wasn't contributing before. And what am I really getting out of it? A free flu shot? A free "wellness check?"

And should something catastrophic happen, I'd be out an additional $1000, whereas if I had no insurance at all, the hospital indigent fund would cover it, which of course comes out of everyone else's property taxes or whatever.

So I'm not really seeing how I'm coming out ahead here... indeed, regardless of scenario, I'm paying a lot more IN to the system than I would be by just foregoing insurance altogether. But you're here saying I'm a "taker" whereas I wouldn't be if I opted out?

And there we have the true motivation...you coming out ahead, a true capitalistic concept, but perverted by socialist 'gibs me dat'.

Because it's really all about you, isn't it.

And never a single, solitary thought in your head of actually paying for your own debts...not one.

[LAGC]

And there we have the true motivation...you coming out ahead, a true capitalistic concept, but perverted by socialist 'gibs me dat'.

Because it's really all about you, isn't it.

You're projecting again. It's primarily selfish conservatives who don't want any of their tax money going to help out other people in need, those less fortunate than themselves. Even if it would save more money over the long-term.

"Ayn Rand be exalted" and everything.

And never a single, solitary thought in your head of actually paying for your own debts...not one.

No, it's precisely because I want to pay my debts, protect my credit rating, and be responsible that I even considered getting health insurance in the first place.

But maybe you're right. Maybe I should just not renew my Obamacare next year, and think only of myself, and splurge on one of these instead:

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AS-PB287Q

[Kadmos]

Maybe YOUR share of MY income is "only" 1 cent, but so is every other moocher that I pay for. Cents add up to dollars which add up to thousands of dollars.

Why should I pay for someone else? I gotta pay my OWN bills, nobody throws in their pennies for ME.

Give me ONE good reason why I should pay for someone else?

You buy insurance right? You're already paying someone else's bills, plus usually a fairly high administrative cost, plus company profits.

The fact is, unless you need medication, or something happens, then you would save a ton of money just paying cash when you need to. Go to a doc once a year, if it's just a checkup and basic bloodwork you're at about $150-200.

If like most people that is all you really do medically, then every other penny is going to someone else. Usually to the tune of ten to twenty times what you actually use.

If I use the same insurance provider and have a serious condition which costs the provider 10's of thousands then obviously you are one of the people paying for that.

So what's the real difference here?

That the government is involved? The fact is they can get better service for less money. By doing the exact same thing the bigger insurance companies do, negotiating the price. The difference is the government is in a better position to negotiate than even the bigger companies are.

[Oswald Bastable]

It's primarily selfish conservatives who don't want any of their tax money going to help out other people in need, those less fortunate than themselves. Even if it would save more money over the long-term.

Shown to be absolutely false based on the history of the 'war on peverty', budget constantly increased by both parties. It's been 50 years, shouldn't we have something to show for it by now?

No, it's precisely because I want to pay my debts, protect my credit rating, and be responsible that I even considered getting health insurance in the first place.

And you could have bought an 'out of pocket' catastrophic plan and paid outright for that yearly physical and flu shot...you'd have likely been ahead monetarily and wouldn't have subsidized, or been subsidized by, anyone else. That would have been paying your own way.

[alismith]

If Kadmos and LAGC are supporting Obamacare, then that's argument enough for me to stay away from it. Nothing more needs to be added.

[Kadmos]

If Kadmos and LAGC are supporting Obamacare, then that's argument enough for me to stay away from it. Nothing more needs to be added.

Cool. I also support trial by jury, the 2nd amendment, private property ownership, 2(or more) parent families, and high literacy rates...

[LAGC]

Shown to be absolutely false based on the history of the 'war on peverty', budget constantly increased by both parties. It's been 50 years, shouldn't we have something to show for it by now?

It's pretty hard to deny that most poor people are much better off in this country now than they were 50 years ago.

I mean, isn't it usually folks on your side of the aisle bitching about how so many poor folks have cable T.V., food stamps, and their free "Obama phones?" (actually Dubya "Bush phones", but I digress...)

And you could have bought an 'out of pocket' catastrophic plan and paid outright for that yearly physical and flu shot...you'd have likely been ahead monetarily and wouldn't have subsidized, or been subsidized by, anyone else. That would have been paying your own way.

Catastrophic plans are only available for folks under 30, unless you qualify for a "hardship exemption":

https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-...trophic-plans/

They have outrageously high deductibles and max out-of-pocket expenses, shouldn't even be considered "insurance" since most people who need serious care end up racking up thousands of dollars in debt and aren't able to repay anyway.

That's a good part of the reason there was that whole brouhaha over "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" -- so many of those catastrophic "junk" plans were just that: worthless. If you're going to go broke if you ever have to spend a few days in a hospital, there's no point in even having that kind of "insurance" in the first place.

[Helen Keller]

When I read the thread title I was hoping for...

[mrkalashnikov]

Here is some more video coming out of Ferguson, a tragedy involving an ice cream truck & dancing pedestrian. We can only hope the ice cream wasn't damaged:

[skorpion]

Enough with the bickering. The bottom line is this, in reference to the original post: