And on the precrime front....

[5.56NATO]

Germany's New Pre-Crime System Directly Modeled After "Minority Report"
The pace of technological advancement is quickening to the point where the gap between science fiction and reality is being greatly reduced. Philip K. Dick explored the concept of pre-crime in his short story "The Minority Report" in 1956, but it wasn't until Steven Spielberg offered it on the big screen as Minority Report in 2002 that the audience got a true look at a potential day-to-day existence under corporate and government data management and control.

As if Germany doesn't have a sordid enough history of implementing an omnipresent secret police, apparently they are prepared to give it a modern-day upgrade via crime predicting software that is directly based on Minority Report.

The system is called Precobs, just a slight variant of the Precogs from formerly what was known as science fiction. The "Pre-Crime Observation System" will analyze "data of the location, time and other details of past crimes such as home break-ins. When a new incident is reported, the software analyses the data to look for a pattern that will point to a future target."

Just to give it a further demonic twist, they are testing the system in Munich and Nuremberg, where officials say the results are "promising."

But Germany can't lay claim to inventing this type of technology - it's already being used in several areas of the United States.


Chicago's "Heat List" is an index of approximately 400 people who have been identified by a computer algorithm as being future threats to commit violent crime. Without having actually committed a crime, some of those on the list have actually been visited by Chicago police warning them that they are being watched.

In California, a sociologist at the University of California, Riverside has been working with the Indio Police Department to offer a computer dragnet that can predict where burglaries are going to happen in the future. Prof. Robert Nash Parker has developed a "computer model that predicts, by census block group, where burglaries are likely to occur." Notably, Indio only has a population of 75,000, indicating that no area is to be considered off the radar of the technocratic police state.

And in Arizona, mental health pre-crime systems are searching for people "near the breaking point." The system can harvest everything from medical records to gun purchases to online posts. Citing the crimes of Jared Loughner and Elliot Rodger, these units are being given the green light with new legislation to involuntarily detain those who are flagged.

This is all being conducted amid a backdrop of pre-crime Internet systems that continuously scour and collect data for potentially incriminating patterns:
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/12/...-directly.html

[LAGC]

The simple reality of the situation is that everything in nature ultimately boils down to math. Even human behavior, especially at the macro level. While it is quite unlikely that they'll ever be able to get to the point of being able to pin-point a precise criminal action and exactly when it will happen, it is already quite possible to identify "hot-spots" where added police presence in certain neighborhoods can anticipate increased criminal activity in general.

The late sci-fi novelist Isaac Asimov explored this whole idea of human behavior all boiled down to math in his Foundation series.

I think he was even more prescient than Philip K. Dick was.

[Oswald Bastable]

The simple reality of the situation is that everything in nature ultimately boils down to math. Even human behavior, especially at the macro level. While it is quite unlikely that they'll ever be able to get to the point of being able to pin-point a precise criminal action and exactly when it will happen, it is already quite possible to identify "hot-spots" where added police presence in certain neighborhoods can anticipate increased criminal activity in general.

The late sci-fi novelist Isaac Asimov explored this whole idea of human behavior all boiled down to math in his Foundation series.

I think he was even more prescient than Philip K. Dick was.

Must be why psychology and sociology are now such "hard" sciences, eh?

And no, apart from robotics and its influence on technology/Man, there were few SF authors more prescient than Phil. The single most prescient in that regard recently is William Gibson.

[LAGC]

Must be why psychology and sociology are now such "hard" sciences, eh?

I can't speak for sociology as I'm not sure how much it has changed over the past 15 years, but with the advent of neuroscience, there's a lot more science involved in the parent field of psychology these days, that's for sure.

They're already demonstrated the viability of making a foolproof lie detector (far more accurate than questionable polygraphs) -- all they are waiting for is the cost of fMRI technology to come down so that every police department can own one, and start using it against criminal suspects.

The way things are shaping up, the tools that future governments will be able to use to control their own citizenry could end up making even the most guarded Stasi agent blush.

And no, apart from robotics and its influence on technology/Man, there were few SF authors more prescient than Phil. The single most prescient in that regard recently is William Gibson.

I will admit that Neuromancer was a classic. He might have just been 50 years too early in his predictions though. But we're getting there. Maybe even by the turn of the next century...

[Oswald Bastable]

I can't speak for sociology as I'm not sure how much it has changed over the past 15 years, but with the advent of neuroscience, there's a lot more science involved in the parent field of psychology these days, that's for sure.

They're already demonstrated the viability of making a foolproof lie detector (far more accurate than questionable polygraphs) -- all they are waiting for is the cost of fMRI technology to come down so that every police department can own one, and start using it against criminal suspects.

The way things are shaping up, the tools that future governments will be able to use to control their own citizenry could end up making even the most guarded Stasi agent blush.



I will admit that Neuromancer was a classic. He might have just been 50 years too early in his predictions though. But we're getting there. Maybe even by the turn of the next century...

There's little neuroscience in modern psych apart from linking drugs to behavioral changes...modern psych is all about prescribing questionable drugs (involving kickbacks) for an ever expanding DSM that bears less correspondence to reality with each new volume.

And if you think it will be turn of the next century before people "jack in" (inferring mankind lasts that long) you obviously weren't paying attention to the advancements from 1900 to 2000...

[LAGC]

There's little neuroscience in modern psych apart from linking drugs to behavioral changes...modern psych is all about prescribing questionable drugs (involving kickbacks) for an ever expanding DSM that bears less correspondence to reality with each new volume.

I think you're talking more about psychiatry as a profession, which I agree is more of an art than a science.

100 years from now we'll probably have Star Trek type diagnostic equipment, and everyone will look back at the sillyness of popping pills as an ancient, primitive custom.

And if you think it will be turn of the next century before people "jack in" (inferring mankind lasts that long) you obviously weren't paying attention to the advancements from 1900 to 2000...

Well, I guess they do have some pretty convincing virtual reality gear out already... will probably be a few more decades before we can have true virtual sex like in a Holodeck or something though.

[Oswald Bastable]

I think you're talking more about psychiatry as a profession, which I agree is more of an art than a science.

100 years from now we'll probably have Star Trek type diagnostic equipment, and everyone will look back at the sillyness of popping pills as an ancient, primitive custom.

I said psych, specifically, to include both pseudo-sciences. 100 years from now we'll all be dead, and your attempts to usher in the new paradigm, forgotten...

Well, I guess they do have some pretty convincing virtual reality gear out already... will probably be a few more decades before we can have true virtual sex like in a Holodeck or something though.

For a double-naught skientist, you sure don't keep up with neuroscience and its integration with consciousness much...do you...

[LAGC]

I said psych, specifically, to include both pseudo-sciences. 100 years from now we'll all be dead, and your attempts to usher in the new paradigm, forgotten...

Not necessarily. Many "experts" are already predicting that young adults today could very well live to be 150. Maybe even longer.

There's a lot of resources being pumped into longevity studies. If scientists ever find a way to stop our telomeres from shortening, the sky could be the limit.

We'll have to do something about Social Security though... can't have tens of millions of people on the dole for 75+ years with only "kids" under 65 supporting them.

For a double-naught skientist, you sure don't keep up with neuroscience and its integration with consciousness much...do you...

It's a booming field, to be sure. But until fMRI becomes much cheaper and doesn't require a huge machine with patients having to lay still inside, it can only progress so fast.

[Oswald Bastable]

You know what's most telling?

It's that all the dystopian prognosticators' visions are coming true precisely as the socialists' dreams are reaching fruition.

You might want to ponder upon that for a moment or three...

[LAGC]

You know what's most telling?

It's that all the dystopian prognosticators' visions are coming true precisely as the socialists' dreams are reaching fruition.

You might want to ponder upon that for a moment or three...

No, if there is ever going to be a dystopian scenario in our future, I think it will much more likely be distinctly capitalist in nature.

Chances are good that even if real life-extending treatment became a reality, it would be expensive as all hell and tightly controlled. Only the "chosen ones" (the rich and powerful) would get it, while the rest of us poor, miserable souls would be allowed to die off "naturally."

Think: more like Elysium than 1984.

[Oswald Bastable]

No, if there is ever going to be a dystopian scenario in our future, I think it will much more likely be distinctly capitalist in nature.

Chances are good that even if real life-extending treatment became a reality, it would be expensive as all hell and tightly controlled. Only the "chosen ones" (the rich and powerful) would get it, while the rest of us poor, miserable souls would be allowed to die off "naturally."

Think: more like Elysium than 1984.

With capitalism on the wane, socialism pretty much endemic in all western (and all other) society, said society about to be subsumed by islamic theocracy...and stil you would hold true to marx.

You really are that damned stupid...aren't you...

[LAGC]

With capitalism on the wane, socialism pretty much endemic in all western (and all other) society, said society about to be subsumed by islamic theocracy...and stil you would hold true to marx.

What is this "endemic socialism" which you speak?

It was another record year for American wealth: The aggregate net worth of the richest 400 Americans was $2.29 trillion, up $270 billion from a year ago. It took a minimum net worth of $1.55 billion to make The Forbes 400, $250 million more than in 2013.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

Don't you get it yet? As George Carlin so eloquently put it: it's a very exclusive club, and you and I are NOT in it.

[Oswald Bastable]

What is this "endemic socialism" which you speak?

It was another record year for American wealth: The aggregate net worth of the richest 400 Americans was $2.29 trillion, up $270 billion from a year ago. It took a minimum net worth of $1.55 billion to make The Forbes 400, $250 million more than in 2013.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

Don't you get it yet? As George Carlin so eloquently put it: it's a very exclusive club, and you and I are NOT in it.

Explain to me...apart from a few islands (Hong Kong, Singapore) where anything resembling true capitalism still exists?

Note...we're not talking about the socialist oligarchs who hide behind leftist psuedo-capitalist labels...we're talking about any area of the planet where something resembling true capitalism still exists...

Your socialist oligarchs control most of the world today. How's that working, as far as justice, wealth distribution, etc....how's that working...worldwide?

The EU is entirely socialist. China, socialist/communist. The entire continent of Africa, socialist/communist. South America...socialist/communist. Central America, socialist/communist. Russia...well, we all know what the ex-KGB Putn has planned there. Canada...cuspy, vacillating... Mexico, narco-terrorist socialist.

US? Is there anything still capitalistic about it? Or is it slightly less regulated (actually more regulated) than communist China?

Be honest for once in your misbegotten life...grasp the truth...

Be a frikken skientist, and examine the facts...if you're capable.

[LAGC]

socialist oligarchs

That's called an oxy moron, my friend.

I assure you that Bill Gates, the late Steve Jobs, the Koch Brothers, and even George Soros are not socialists, in any sense, nor do they consider themselves such.

Perhaps some elementary vocabulary review is in order:

capitalism [kap-i-tl-iz-uh m] noun - an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

socialism [soh-shuh-liz-uh m] noun - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

oligarchy [ol-i-gahr-kee] noun - a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few.

The only country on this planet remotely resembling a "socialist oligarchy" is arguably North Korea. But it's not even really an oligarchy, just a brutal dictatorship (or monarchy of one.)

Although I understand how in your world anything short of an Ayn Randian "utopia" isn't "true" capitalism, but just "socialism in disguise" or something.

[5.56NATO]

The simple reality of the situation is that everything in nature ultimately boils down to math. Even human behavior, especially at the macro level. While it is quite unlikely that they'll ever be able to get to the point of being able to pin-point a precise criminal action and exactly when it will happen, it is already quite possible to identify "hot-spots" where added police presence in certain neighborhoods can anticipate increased criminal activity in general.

The late sci-fi novelist Isaac Asimov explored this whole idea of human behavior all boiled down to math in his Foundation series.

I think he was even more prescient than Philip K. Dick was.

My problem with this is the same as in the movie, someone is accused, incarcerated, and convicted yet didn't commit the crime. Imagine how a police state could enjoy such technology!

[FunkyPertwee]

Old school Doctor Who fans will remember The Matrix, the Time Lord computer system that recorded the knowledge of all Time Lords in the universe. It was considered infallible, so when false evidence was used by The Matrix to convict the Doctor, there was no question in the court's mind of his guilt. Nothing he could do could prove himself innocent in light of evidence from The Matrix (except of course to prove the fallibility of The Matrix itself.)

[5.56NATO]

HOW YOUR THREAT MATRIX SCORE COULD LAND YOU ON THE TERMINAL “RED LIST”
Law Professor Margaret Hu says “Americans could be targeted for unlawful detention and even execution”.
Professor Margaret Hu from the Washington and Lee University School of Law states that “The implementation of a universal digitalized biometric ID system risks normalizing and integrating mass cybersurveillance into the daily lives of ordinary citizens”.

Professor Hu explains that the FBI’s Next Generation Identification project will institute the following:
“A comprehensive, centralized, and technologically interoperable biometric database that spans across military and national security agencies, as well as all other state and federal government agencies. Once complete, NGI will strive to centralize whatever biometric data is available on all citizens and noncitizens in the United States and abroad, including information on fingerprints, DNA, iris scans, voice recognition, and facial recognition data captured through digitalized photos, such as U.S. passport photos and REAL ID driver’s licenses. The NGI Interstate Photo System, for instance, aims to aggregate digital photos from not only federal, state, and local law enforcement, but also digital photos from private businesses, social networking sites, government agencies, and foreign and international entities, as well as acquaintances, friends, and family members”. Biometric ID cybersurveillance might be used to assign risk assessment scores and to take action based on those scores
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/20...inal-red-list/

[Krupski]

Germany's New Pre-Crime System Directly Modeled After "Minority Report"

The system is called Precobs, just a slight variant of the Precogs

The "B" probably stands for "Beobachtung" which means "observing" or "watching" or "surveillance".

During WW-II, the official Nazi party newspaper was called the Volkischer Beobachter which meant "The People's Observer".

(edit): HA I was right:

from http://www.ifmpt.de:

precobs ist der abgekürzte Name der Prognosesoftware des IfmPt, die weltweit vermarktet wird. Er steht für: Pre Crime Observation System.

"Precobs" is the abbreviated name of "Ifmpt's" forecasting software which will be marketed worldwide. It stands for: Pre Crime Observation System.

[Krupski]

Old school Doctor Who fans will remember The Matrix, the Time Lord computer system that recorded the knowledge of all Time Lords in the universe. It was considered infallible, so when false evidence was used by The Matrix to convict the Doctor, there was no question in the court's mind of his guilt. Nothing he could do could prove himself innocent in light of evidence from The Matrix (except of course to prove the fallibility of The Matrix itself.)

Sounds like a Star Trek episode "The Changeling".

[alismith]

Chicago's "Heat List" is an index of approximately 400 people who have been identified by a computer algorithm as being future threats to commit violent crime. Without having actually committed a crime, some of those on the list have actually been visited by Chicago police warning them that they are being watched.

Ahhh, but how long will this last when Al and Jesse realize this might be a case of computer "profiling?"