Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36

Thread: No Big Bang? I Thought It Was a Fact

  1. #21
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Back in the Pacific Northwest!
    Posts
    8,174
    Think, though, of the possibilities if time did not exist. If there is a "dimension" where time does not restrict or push. There would be no dying, as that would be an end, signifying time, there would be no tiredness as our muscles would not feel the effects of exertion over time. Time, whether measured or not, enslaves us, without it think of how free we would be.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

  2. #22
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    44th "Free" State
    Posts
    19,239
    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    Think, though, of the possibilities if time did not exist. If there is a "dimension" where time does not restrict or push. There would be no dying, as that would be an end, signifying time, there would be no tiredness as our muscles would not feel the effects of exertion over time. Time, whether measured or not, enslaves us, without it think of how free we would be.
    Yeah, neat thought experiment. However, IF you could travel at the speed of light, time, for you, would stop. Then, you would live forever.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

    My Spirit Animal has rabies.

    I'd rather be an American than a Democrat.

    "If you can make a man afraid, you can control him" Netflix Series, The Irregulars

  3. #23
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    harms way
    Posts
    17,786
    Quote Originally Posted by raxar View Post
    How so? If things exist than time has to also exist, since by nature of existence requires time in which the things that exist exist.
    In the books of Adam and Eve it says that YHWH promised a deliverer to get Adam and eve back into the garden in 5500 years after they had sinned. Before the fall there was no night, I presume the universe was stationary and there was no "time" as we know it. After the fall the universe was set in motion and Adam and Eve hated the dark of night because untill then there had been no darkness and before the fall when they could still see with their spirit rather than flesh they could see forever and had no need for daylight, however they had to spend their nights in the cave of treasures after the fall. Adam beseeched YHWH to stop the darkness and YHWH said, through his word that would become messiah 5500 years later, that if there was no night or day those 5500 years would never come and thusly no redemption. So 5500 years after the almighty created the universe messiah was born. And Adam and Eve and the rest of the saints who sat in darkness in sheol saw a great light, the light of messiah shining in sheol as he broke the iron gates of hell and let loose the captives from death and hell, returning them to paradise. So if messiah was born around 4bc, that would mean we're today around 7519 years since creation. And now you know why there is such a thing as time.
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  4. #24
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Back in the Pacific Northwest!
    Posts
    8,174
    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    Yeah, neat thought experiment. However, IF you could travel at the speed of light, time, for you, would stop. Then, you would live forever.
    Theoretically, but we know that light travels inside of time as we know how fast light travels. Because of this it is still effected by time. We would still die, it would just take light years for someone to notice.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

  5. #25
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Back in the Pacific Northwest!
    Posts
    8,174
    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    In the books of Adam and Eve it says that YHWH promised a deliverer to get Adam and eve back into the garden in 5500 years after they had sinned. Before the fall there was no night, I presume the universe was stationary and there was no "time" as we know it. After the fall the universe was set in motion and Adam and Eve hated the dark of night because untill then there had been no darkness and before the fall when they could still see with their spirit rather than flesh they could see forever and had no need for daylight, however they had to spend their nights in the cave of treasures after the fall. Adam beseeched YHWH to stop the darkness and YHWH said, through his word that would become messiah 5500 years later, that if there was no night or day those 5500 years would never come and thusly no redemption. So 5500 years after the almighty created the universe messiah was born. And Adam and Eve and the rest of the saints who sat in darkness in sheol saw a great light, the light of messiah shining in sheol as he broke the iron gates of hell and let loose the captives from death and hell, returning them to paradise. So if messiah was born around 4bc, that would mean we're today around 7519 years since creation. And now you know why there is such a thing as time.
    You quote the Bible occasionally here but what you posted does not fit with what the Bible says about creation. On the first day of creation, according to the Bible, before Adam and Eve had sinned (the fall) God created light and separated it from darkness, calling one day the other night. Your post confuses me or I am missing the point of it.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

  6. #26
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    harms way
    Posts
    17,786
    I'm not sure on the timeline exactness of it all, just what I've read. And I know Genesis makes mention of YHWH would come in the cool of the evening to talk with Adam, evening denoting a time of day. Oh I think I get it now. Maybe the darkness didn't affect Adam or Eve since they were still spirit rather than base flesh like we are today, they could see as far as they wanted, even to heaven, and had no need for light as we need light to see. They also could travel any distance just by thought. What I should have said is they were unaffected by the passage of time and darkness untill they had fallen, they then lost the bright nature they had and the ability to see in the spiritual plane. It was miserable at night in the cave of treasure so Adam asked YHWH for certain things to comfort him, of wich YHWH obliged. You'll have to read the Books of Adam and Eve for more. Then the Book of Enoch. Then Flavius Josephus. And the apocrypha. And the bible. People have edited so much out of what was common knowledge to believers of the earliest times.
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  7. #27
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Back in the Pacific Northwest!
    Posts
    8,174
    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    I'm not sure on the timeline exactness of it all, just what I've read. And I know Genesis makes mention of YHWH would come in the cool of the evening to talk with Adam, evening denoting a time of day. Oh I think I get it now. Maybe the darkness didn't affect Adam or Eve since they were still spirit rather than base flesh like we are today, they could see as far as they wanted, even to heaven, and had no need for light as we need light to see. They also could travel any distance just by thought. What I should have said is they were unaffected by the passage of time and darkness untill they had fallen, they then lost the bright nature they had and the ability to see in the spiritual plane. It was miserable at night in the cave of treasure so Adam asked YHWH for certain things to comfort him, of wich YHWH obliged. You'll have to read the Books of Adam and Eve for more. Then the Book of Enoch. Then Flavius Josephus. And the apocrypha. And the bible. People have edited so much out of what was common knowledge to believers of the earliest times.
    I have read all but Josephus, which I am working on. I did not remember that being in any of them.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

  8. #28
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,076
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Time exists within the universe, not outside of it.

    You can't stand outside the big bang and time it. The very passage of time is determined by events within the big bang.

    The big bang it self is the beggining of time, and the end of time is when all the matter in the universe runs out of energy and all matter rests cold and motionless in space. Gravity slowly forms a single giant accretion disk from this matter, which eventually compresses into what I can only imagine is like a super "star". This "star" continues to compress itself down into a singular point which contains all of the matter of the universe plus all of the energy generated by the friction of compressing it all into a single point. When the gravity of all the universe's matter is no longer strong enough to contain the energy within itself, it will explode, sending out enough matter and energy to create a new universe. This is the beginning of time all over again.
    Over 50 years ago, noted author James Blish (yeah, the guy who transcribed the original Star Trek teleplays into books) theorized that very thing in a quartet of novellas collectively called "Cities In Flight". One story, "The Triumph of Time" had humans in the far distant future placing themselves ot the nexus of where this "big bang" would re-occur. It was their thought/attempt to lend some "structure" or "direction" that the new universe would have by their thoughts and actions would generate in that explosion.
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

  9. #29
    Senior Member raxar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    PA, where the cold is only matched by the isolation
    Posts
    3,797
    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    He was describing the pulsating universe theory, just one of many different theories about our universe.
    If one event occurs after another there has to be time between the two of them. Even if there isn't a being capable of perceiving times passage, it's like arguing that light doesn't exist without eyes to see it.

  10. #30
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    11,163
    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Over 50 years ago, noted author James Blish (yeah, the guy who transcribed the original Star Trek teleplays into books) theorized that very thing in a quartet of novellas collectively called "Cities In Flight". One story, "The Triumph of Time" had humans in the far distant future placing themselves ot the nexus of where this "big bang" would re-occur. It was their thought/attempt to lend some "structure" or "direction" that the new universe would have by their thoughts and actions would generate in that explosion.
    Well, I wouldn't want to be those guys!
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  11. #31
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    11,163
    Quote Originally Posted by raxar View Post
    If one event occurs after another there has to be time between the two of them. Even if there isn't a being capable of perceiving times passage, it's like arguing that light doesn't exist without eyes to see it.
    I don't know that time actually stops. Thats just the phrasing I used because I don't know what I'm talking about.
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  12. #32
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    6,386
    Perhaps time is circular and has no beginning nor end but rather is an endless loop infinitely repeating.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  13. #33
    Senior Member raxar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    PA, where the cold is only matched by the isolation
    Posts
    3,797
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    I don't know that time actually stops. Thats just the phrasing I used because I don't know what I'm talking about.
    That's OK, neither do the scientists.

    I wonder how many people have looked back at all the nonsense that was considered scientific fact 2 or 3 hundred years ago, and then realized that people hundreds of years from now will think the same about us.

  14. #34
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    harms way
    Posts
    17,786
    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    I have read all but Josephus, which I am working on. I did not remember that being in any of them.
    Try the Books of Adam and Eve;
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm
    In these two books, Adam and Eve describe what they lost in the fall. They lost most all their spiritual abilities. And considering our fallen state today this may be a blessing to us since we can't see in the spirit, we can't see the angels assigned to watch us, and the demons who surround us and want to kill us and entice us to sin. None of wich a unbeliever is prepared to deal with, much more a believer.
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

  15. #35
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    East of Atlanta GA
    Posts
    15,035
    Quote Originally Posted by raxar View Post
    How so? If things exist than time has to also exist, since by nature of existence requires time in which the things that exist exist.
    Time is a word to convey a concept of what is. A label created to name it based off our planets rotation and movement around our star.

  16. #36
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,076
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Well, I wouldn't want to be those guys!
    I don't know. Could be interesting. Your physical make-up becomes the "seed" for that particular universe, possibly lending it some unique qualities.
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •