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Thread: Martial Arts for my son

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    Team GunsNetwork PLATINUM 10/2012 rci2950's Avatar

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    Martial Arts for my son

    When my son gets old enough i am going to put him in classes for some sort of martial art. I was reading about a number of them and knowing nothing myself i realized that most of them are useless in actual real world self defence. Is anyone here involved in a martial art? I looked at Judo and Kung fu classes that are given in town. Once a week classes that you bring your kid to and they jump around and stuff with white robes on. Thats the kind of thing i want for him but something that will be more useful later on then just slapping someones chest and dancing around them.

    Any Ideas?
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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    I hold a 3rd degree black belt in Tae-Kwan-do (only took me about 10 years, but I made it) and taught martial arts class for about 6 years before I "retired."

    Tae Kwan-do is a good martial art to study, but it deals with about 80% foot work and 20% hand work. After watching other forms, I feel that more hand work is needed in the real world. The main problem I see with my training is that I can disable someone, but don't really know how to "control" someone if I don't want to physically hurt them. Controlling someone would be of far more use than hurting them.

    Also, Tae Kwan-do is a "hard form" martial art compared to a "soft form" martial art. Hard form means you meet an attack with a block that is supposed to cause damage to the opponent, while soft form is meant to redirect an opponent's attack so they miss you, totally, while you end up in a controlling position after their attack. Soft forms are much more difficult to learn but once mastered, you are very seldom touched by your opponent while gaining control of them. But, most soft forms do contain some aspects of hardness, especially when punching.

    If I had it to do all over again, I would try to get into an Aikido class and spend more time on hand work.

    If you want to see Aikido in action, check out any Steven Segal movie as he learned that style.

    No matter which form you go with, any form is better than not learning one at all.

    Hint: Take class with your son. You'll enjoy it, too.
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    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    If you want him to learn a martial art with real world self defense applications, I would suggest Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. In the beginning days of the UFC when there were no rules (as close to a street fight as you can get) it was Royce Gracie that won it. If you want something that also has application in scholastic athletics, try wrestling. Again, in a no rules fight a wrestler has an advantage in that they can take their opponent down and control them. I studied Tae Kwon Do for a couple years as well. I agree with everything Alismith said regarding that discipline.

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    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    The big problem with strip mall Karate is kids don't experience getting hit or taking serious punishment as is the case in a real fight or amateur boxing for that matter. I know a lot of people who have never been in a fight that think they are deadly because of a belt they have been awarded. Karate is useful IMHO, but if you want your kid to know how to fight boxing, wrestling, and BJJ are the way to go (or just train in MMA from the get go). Karate training does not teach you how to block short hooks and combination punching. The punching from the hip (as per classic Karate) is a joke. Watching MMA shows how easily kicks can be countered with a straight punch to the face which does not happen in dojo sparing. Kicking is a great long range fighting technique, but a good boxing jab can be thrown from the same distance as a kick without opening yourself to a counter.
    Last edited by jet3534; 03-28-2015 at 08:31 PM.

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    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking350 View Post
    If you want him to learn a martial art with real world self defense applications, I would suggest Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. In the beginning days of the UFC when there were no rules (as close to a street fight as you can get) it was Royce Gracie that won it. If you want something that also has application in scholastic athletics, try wrestling. Again, in a no rules fight a wrestler has an advantage in that they can take their opponent down and control them. I studied Tae Kwon Do for a couple years as well. I agree with everything Alismith said regarding that discipline.
    The other day I checked out the UFC fight Mark Schultz was in on Youtube (forget if it was UFC 7 or 9). This match showed how a good wrestler can take someone down and out (as you say) in a matter of seconds.
    Last edited by jet3534; 03-28-2015 at 08:39 PM.

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    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2014 Hatedbysheeple's Avatar

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    the guy that teaches our hand to hand is a retired MMA fighter, we focus on close work and getting distance, so we can get our primary back up or draw a pistol or fixed blade. We also train in subduing a target with the help of knees or muzzle strikes. In my experience, wrestling, BJJ, and straight boxing would be the way to go for 99% of the stuff encountered. Most of the fights I have seen or been in start with a sloppy haymaker and then go into a sloppy tackle attempt, not some crazy karate move. Unless your really good kicking tends to land most guys on their ass, so we keep to fist, elbows and knees for strikes, everything outside of that is ground game. Little hung over so this is a bit of a ramble.
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    I took a limited amount of Judo back when and remain a strong proponent of it.
    All the work is close-in and relies on working with inertia and momentum. There's a lot of standing work but it is a lead-in to throws and grappling/mat work. The wrestling aspect often ends in a submission due to a joint lock (arm bar), pin, or choke hold. Punches and striking? Advanced black belts levels only.
    The whole program was designed as a fitness regimen with a practical application. It retained defensive use while toning down techniques drawn from other arts.
    If you have a sensei that adheres to the founding principle you will often hear 'mutual benefit and welfare' for participants.
    Read on Dr. Jigoro Kano for more info.
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    Senior Member Sidartha's Avatar

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    I studied Karate for a number of years when I was younger(7 or 8) and as I grew up I realized that I was being taught a dummied-down kids version of the art.
    You won't find a school that will teach a little kid eye gouges, nerve strikes, or the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique.

    That said, I was taught very good balance and the basic mechanics of how to punch, kick and throw an opponent that I retain nearly thirty years later.
    My advice is to get him into any school and as he gets older he might choose to change schools to one that is more street applicable and also a closer fit to his personal tastes.

    And even if he ends up dropping out completely to join a book club, he will still be one up on the average untrained goon that tries to mug him in the street.
    This is just my opinion and it's entirely correct.

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    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    The other day I checked out the UFC fight Mark Schultz was in on Youtube (forget if it was UFC 7 or 9). This match showed how a good wrestler can take someone down and out (as you say) in a matter of seconds.
    I wrestled in high school. That was 15 ish years before the first UFC fight. We would have guys come into the gym that thought they were bad asses and that what they saw on tv was wrestling. After a brief explanation of the rules, coach would match us up with them. Every one of them lost. Most left the gym and never came back. One or two stuck around and actually became decent wrestlers. That experience formed my opinion as to what type of fighter would be successful in the UFC when it first started.

  10. #10
    Senior Member whiskeyman's Avatar

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    Tae Kwon Do will teach you how to put your opponent down quickly. Once they are down then you decide how big of a lesson they need to learn.

  11. #11
    Team GunsNet Silver 07/2011 Sherman's Avatar

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    Krav Maga is no bullshit theatrical stuff with spins and kicks and Ha! Yah's. Watch some you tube videos of it it truly badass.

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Capoeria looks pretty silly until you realize that 300 years ago they would have been practicing performing those moves with blades held in both their hands and feet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Capoeria looks pretty silly until you realize that 300 years ago they would have been practicing performing those moves with blades held in both their hands and feet.
    Too bad without the blades it amounts to some one looking like an epileptic trying to break dance and wasting a metric but ton of energy while maintaining an easily judged rythm. Brilliant.


    Of all the disciplines I have trained in, Krav Maga and Muay thai have been what I naturally fall back to when needed or when sparring with friends. Krav Maga was the biggest ass kicking a class has ever given me. For real world training nothing beats a good Krav Maga studio.
    I started early on with Karate and Judo, learned a lot but compared to the other two seems like wasted time.

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    Senior Member daemon734's Avatar

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    I did Tae Kwon Do and Kickboxing for a number of years when I was younger, now I do Muay Thai mainly for fitness and mobility recovery issues, and JiuJitsu for real world application.

    Most traditional martial arts like Karate, Kung Fu, and Tae Kwon Do require literally years and years before any practical real world benefit is achieved, and even then it is somewhat limited in usefulness. The majority of human beings cannot achieve the flexibility required to deliver power with the legs without massive focus training in that area, and even then not many people can achieve that ability even while their muscles are cold, which is when most real world applications occur. Most standing arts are sports-based only for the majority of people, and require you to be a pretty serious athlete for actual proficiency.

    I do Muay Thai now because it is based around explosive power and maneuver based from a frontal stance, utilizes a lot of clinch work and takedowns, which is what I want out of a standing art. JiuJitsu is probably the most relevant from a defense standpoint as it starts from standing takedowns and control on the ground all the way to submission/break. This is how 99% of real world fights occur. Its also the easiest to adapt to and get the most out of for the average person.

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    Team GunsNet Platinum 07/2011 nfa1934's Avatar

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    The biggest thing I learned in the Army during combatives was to never take a fight to the ground unless you were damn sure you were the more experienced fighter, because the more experienced fighter is going to win on the ground.

    One time while I was a BCT Company XO, our LTC decided to have combatives as Officer PT one morning. Technique eventually went out the window and it degenerated into a free-for-all (we were having fun with it). When we hobbled back to BDE, one of the Drill Sergeants looked at us and said "what in the hell did you all just do?" We had spent a couple of hours at medical on the way. In total there was one broken hand, somebody with four fractured ribs, I had taken an elbow to the underside of my jaw and cut my tongue on both sides with my teeth (didn't know we were doing combatives that morning and didn't bring my mouth guard), and the LTC had a black eye.
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