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Thread: Why does the Brass insist on these MV-22's

  1. #1
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    Why does the Brass insist on these MV-22's

    To the best of my knowledge they have been testing these for 20+ years and
    have been having crashes for 20+ years. Please don't give me everything crashes
    argument. Hell the Nippon's are even scared of them.

    OP story: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/17/us/haw...ead/index.html or http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/18...-hard-landing/

    Japanese story: Well was going to post the story here but it seems to be gone.
    It basically said that the people on Okinawa are nervous about the deployment of 10 more MV-22's
    to the island. This would being the count up to 30+ of these aircraft on the island and the
    inhabitants are worried about crashes.
    While no one ever listens to me,
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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    I didn't know they were having all these problems with them, but I see them fly over my area about once a week. Probably going from Dover to Norfolk, or vice versa.
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    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2014 Hatedbysheeple's Avatar

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    I've flown in them a couple times, to include jumping from them, they scare the hell out of me on take off, once they transition they are ok. The reason they are seen as worth the risk is because of what they can do, take off and land like a helicopter and fly like a plane. The big limit of a traditional helicopter is both its range and speed, the range can be extended with inflight refueling but the speed can not be increased. The speed and the range increase are 3-4 times greater than a comparable helicopter. So a mission that would have required 6 hours of round trip flight, multiple refuelers, and tight time constraints to keep the mission at night, or several c-130 and jump operations with helicopters flying in separately for retrieval, can be completed with two hours of flight time, no jumps, and maybe needing a refuel towards the end.

    The media also tends to flog the crap out of these stories, there have been 8 crashes since 1991, with 37 fatalities, four of the crashes and 30 of the fatalities were during development. The high causality numbers stem from the fact that this is a troop hauler, but these things are flown all day everyday all over the world and since becoming operational in 2007 there have been 7 fatalities, and thousands upon thousands of flight hours and a lot of those into combat while taking fire. The navy is preparing to drop the c-2 gray hound and replace it with the osprey due to its ability to land on almost every ship we have, where as the c-2 can only land on carriers.


    The military already has contracts out for new high speed vertical lift aircraft, most of the ones I have seen designs of use co-axle helicopter blades with turbo prop pushers, at speed they become auto-gyros. they have already flown a test aircraft above 200mph. Here is the sikorsky s-97, unlike the osprey this can land and take off like either a helicopter or airplane.


    here is a proposed big boy
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    Senior Member L1A1Rocker's Avatar

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    I thought those had been canceled because of their bad safety record.
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    I thought the same L1A1 but I will have to go with Hatedbysheeple on this. I will also have to rethink what I think I know.
    My guess is I have been swayed by the negative press over the years. I didn't even know that they had gone operational,
    I have always thought the plane was a good idea but I thought their record was worse than it is. Thanks for the info Hbs.
    While no one ever listens to me,
    I am constantly being told to be quiet.

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  6. #6
    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2014 Hatedbysheeple's Avatar

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    Looked into it a little more, right now the Marines and Air force fly them, with over 200 aircraft in operation as of 2014, as I said above the navy is getting ready to purchase a good number as well. If a tilt rotor squadron is anything like a SH-60 squadron each airframe is getting airborne at least 2-3 times a week if not more.

    Max speed 351 mph
    cruise speed 277
    range w/o aux tanks 1011 miles
    range w/ aux tanks 2230 miles
    capacity 24 troops seated, 32 floor loaded
    20,000lbs internal or 15,000lbs slung external
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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    My future son-in-law works with a squadron of Ospreys in Florida. Once you get to know them they are actually a fairly good aircraft, but like anything military, they see very hard use but with top notch maintenance. Ground crews do a great job at keeping these things flying that were built by low bidders using least expensive parts to only sell at inflated prices.

    Pilots really like them but we have to realize that they have to be both rotary wing pilots as well as fixed wing pilots. Take off and landing as well as low altitude work (as in just above the ground in feet) is tricky in any rotary wing aircraft.

    Like anything else, all new equipment will have teething problems and our news media loves to show the issues to tell us how bad things are, but once the MV-22 really got into service, somehow the news media isn't showing the up-rate and how reliable they have become. No news in aircraft that do their job well.

    What makes the Osprey so great is what was mentioned above, after transition into fixed wing mode they are twice as fast as a rotary wing (helicopter). Copters are speed limited by the speed of the advancing blade. With rotation, the advancing blade tip speed must remain below super sonic, so the copter is limited by the forward speed of the whole vehicle plus the tip speed of the advancing blade. Usually that works out to close to 200 mph airspeed. With the tilt-rotor, the speed limit after transitioning to fixed wing mode is pure power versus drag like any airplane.

    The MV-22 has turned into a real workhorse, but like any tool used heavily, things happen, and our news media loves to jump all over plane crashes. What was really sad in this latest incident is the loss of live of another marine.

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    I wonder if anyone is trying to develop an aircraft similar to the fictional Samson SA-2, used in the movie, Avatar?

    https://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...=spigot-yhp-ch
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

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    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

    My Spirit Animal has rabies.

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    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    I wonder if anyone is trying to develop an aircraft similar to the fictional Samson SA-2, used in the movie, Avatar?

    https://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...=spigot-yhp-ch
    Anybody remember the "Tom Swift Jr." series of books by Victor Appleton 2 back in the mid- to late 60's? He had flying craft with "ducted rotors" similar to the Avatar craft. Those rotors weren't movable as I recall as they were just for lift, like a 'copter. They used a small jet turbine for forward propulsion.
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    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2014 Hatedbysheeple's Avatar

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    I know that ducts help clean up the air and direct the force, but at that size I don't think their thrust benefit would overcome their weight and drag
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    Senior Member daemon734's Avatar

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    They arent that bad anymore, just a really rocky ride. I like them because they are really easy to fastrope from.

  12. #12
    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2014 Hatedbysheeple's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by daemon734 View Post
    I like them because they are really easy to fastrope from.
    Are you high? Maybe just sarcastic, we usually weight the end of the rope with 2 sandbags and then the first junior marine or two down the rope for good measure.
    Last edited by Hatedbysheeple; 05-21-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member daemon734's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatedbysheeple View Post
    Are you high? Maybe just sarcastic, we usually weight the end of the rope with 2 sandbags and then the first junior marine or two down the rope for good measure.
    Yeah, sarcasm isn't easy when I miss a smilie. I did a few night missions in them last year in Afghanistan, two were fast ropes.

    Terrifying.

    I like them better than shithooks though, at least my face isnt getting melted off on ingress/egress.

  14. #14
    Senior Member jet3534's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Anybody remember the "Tom Swift Jr." series of books by Victor Appleton 2 back in the mid- to late 60's? He had flying craft with "ducted rotors" similar to the Avatar craft. Those rotors weren't movable as I recall as they were just for lift, like a 'copter. They used a small jet turbine for forward propulsion.
    I had every book in the Tom Swift Jr. series plus my Father had ever book in the Tom Swift series. Great books written in a different era

  15. #15
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Anybody remember the "Tom Swift Jr." series of books by Victor Appleton 2 back in the mid- to late 60's? He had flying craft with "ducted rotors" similar to the Avatar craft. Those rotors weren't movable as I recall as they were just for lift, like a 'copter. They used a small jet turbine for forward propulsion.
    Oh yeah. I had quite a few of them and never tired of reading them. They were the stuff boy's dreams were made of. We grew up looking for technology to get to that level, but then the Dims destroyed it all with their power-grabbing, free handout programs that ate up our money instead of letting scientific knowledge advance and bring us a better world.

    It's hard imaging a better world when you're an inner city youth who can't read and has no hope of doing anything better than being the first in line for the next government handout and living off your EBT card.

    Tom Swift's world may never be realized, but those of us who read about him can still dream of the way things could have been.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

    My Spirit Animal has rabies.

    I'd rather be an American than a Democrat.

    "If you can make a man afraid, you can control him" Netflix Series, The Irregulars

  16. #16
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet3534 View Post
    I had every book in the Tom Swift Jr. series plus my Father had ever book in the Tom Swift series. Great books written in a different era
    When I was a kid, I probably read nearly all of those books in the "Jr." series but only owned 10-12 of them (still have them too!). Somewhere along the line (when I was a bit older), I found a couple of the original Swift books at yard or book sales. Being from an even earlier era, they weren't as interesting. Also read some of the Hardy Boys book but wasn't into mysteries as much.
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

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