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Thread: Question about an SBR AR-15 kit

  1. #1

    Question about an SBR AR-15 kit

    Total noob question, but I can't help but ask. In the back of my mind I've been wanting an SBR'd AR for quite some time, and I finally convinced myself it's my next toy (after a LR308), so I need to ask you guys:

    Would this be legal to own (without assembling it, of course) with a seperately-placed (my dad's house) lower reciever without the tax stamp?

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=195435917

    I don't know thing one about tax stamps, so any additional info I could come back to when I decide to pick this up would be greatly appreciated. (Like do I have to engrave the lower, do I hate to include serial #'s when I send out the tax stamp, etc.)
    Last edited by RCS; 10-16-2010 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    To SBR a rifle or shotgun, the receiver is the part that is registered. Certainly it could be construed as intent to have a kit and unregistered receiver together and I would imagine it would be tempting to put them together to see what you might have.

    Get a receiver, apply for the tax stamp using the serial number from your receiver, wait the 3 months then once approved and you have stamp in hand, get you an upper for it.

    First thing is you should find out if your CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer/Sheriff) is friendly to such items. If so, get the sheriffs office to take 2 copies of your finger prints, fill out the forms, get 2 passport photos and send them the $200 check. Everything is submitted in duplicate.

  3. #3
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    To SBR a rifle or shotgun, the receiver is the part that is registered. Certainly it could be construed as intent to have a kit and unregistered receiver together and I would imagine it would be tempting to put them together to see what you might have.

    Get a receiver, apply for the tax stamp using the serial number from your receiver, wait the 3 months then once approved and you have stamp in hand, get you an upper for it.

    First thing is you should find out if your CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer/Sheriff) is friendly to such items. If so, get the sheriffs office to take 2 copies of your finger prints, fill out the forms, get 2 passport photos and send them the $200 check. Everything is submitted in duplicate.
    Good advise, heed it. Get your receiver, the form, finger prints, your passport sized mug shot photo and send it all in with the money after filling out. Wait 3 or 4 months then go buy your AR15 shorty upper. BTW they can be problematic to get reliable function. If you're thinking suppressor as well I'd say stay at 10 to 11". BATFE likes to use something called "Constructive Intent" to ruin people's lives with. They always assume you are guilty and prosecute accordingly.
    Last edited by Schuetzenman; 10-17-2010 at 01:40 AM.

  4. #4
    Yeah, I totally fouled up what I was trying to say. I meant to say "without the tax stamp being completed."

    But I appreciate it, guys. Great info! Now do I absolutely need the lower reciever engraved?

    Get a receiver, apply for the tax stamp using the serial number from your receiver, wait the 3 months then once approved and you have stamp in hand, get you an upper for it.
    I'll be sure to do just that. Thanks a lot!

  5. #5
    You might be reading too much into it. The manufacturers information on the receiver you purchased to SBR will be the information you submit to ATF. Once the receiver is SBR'ed it will always be considered an SBR (not just when you take off the upper) You will not be able to just sell it to your friend when you get broke in the future unless he submits the appropriate paperwork as you did to acquire it.

    To my knowledge there is no special engraving that you have to do unless the law has changed. The stamp we are referring to is just that. A large stamp just like one from the post office that you lick and stick on an envelope. Only difference is it is a $200 stamp and must accompany the firearm with the approved paperwork whenever you are using it.

    Do a search on ATF Form 1 or ATF F 1 to get a better idea. It is really not that hard. It is a very simple procedure as long as you are of age, your CLEO signs off on it, and you don't have any felony convictions.
    Last edited by jojo; 10-17-2010 at 10:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It is a very simple procedure as long as you are of age, your CLEO signs off on it, and you don't have any felony convictions.
    Well I'm two for three, as I'm not too sure the CLEO will sign in on it, but I sure hope so.

    Anyone else chime in on the engraving question?

  7. #7
    Moderator circuits's Avatar

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    If you purchase an already-registered SBR on Form 4, you don't have to engrave it.

    If you manufacture it on a Form 1, you have to engrave it.

    If you have to engrave it, presuming you will re-use the existing serial number, the information you are required to engrave is your name, city and state, or recognized abbreviations thereof. In the case of a trust or corporate registration, the name of the trust or corporation and the city and state of the entity's address of record are used instead of your own.

    According to recent (2010) decisions by the ATF, you can indeed temporarily "Un-SBR" it by installing a non-SBR upper onto it, allowing it to then be transported interstate without prior notification and approval from the ATF, and also into states which don't allow SBRs. As long as you don't permanently dispose of your SBR upper, you can then return it to its SBR state at will.

    You can even sell the SBR as a non-SBR without doing a Form 4 transfer, provided it's sold without an upper or with a non-SBR length upper. If you do so, you should notify ATF in writing that the firearm is no longer an SBR, and no longer in your possession.

  8. #8
    Sure you can have it right now, no need to keep it at your dad's house...

    First, buy a stripped virgin AR15 lower receiver for less than $200 bucks (lots of them out there)... have your FFL put it on their books as a "Pistol Receiver"... put the upper on that.

    WHEN the SHTF and all laws are meaningless, feel free to put it on a lower that's got a stock attached to it.

    Just my .02

  9. #9
    Team GunsNet Silver 05/2012

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    The engraving part seems grey- the form 1 instructions say to provide the existing SN and manufacturer (plus city and state). Only if you are starting from scratch do you need to engrave with your name and address. There seems to be two schools of thought on this, which is right?

  10. #10
    Senior Member filthy phil's Avatar

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    re: engraving

    i wrote the atf regarding this and got this response. changed my name for this quote
    EPS Directorate to (filthy phil).
    show details 9/22/06
    Thank you for visiting ATF's Website. As stated on our site, generally,
    we do not answer technical questions via e-mail, but I contacted our
    Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) and was advised the following:

    "If you manufacture the firearm yourself (cut off the barrel), no
    additional markings other than the original markings are required. If a
    Class III manufacturer cuts the barrel, the weapon must be marked by the
    license holder. The serial number would remain the same in both
    instances."

    If you have any further questions, please call them on 304-260-1700.
    Regards,

    -----Original Message-----
    From: (filthy phil) [xxxxxx@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 6:52 PM
    To: EPS Directorate
    Subject: required markings for sbr

    sirs,
    please advise me of any required markings or engravings for my uzi short
    bbl rifle, approved march 30, 2006.
    i flled out the required info on the form 1 that was approved. this
    weapon is registered under my llc, and am hearing conflicting info
    regarding any additional makings or engravings required. of course i
    wish to remain in compliance.
    thank you
    filthy phil
    owner
    filthy enterprises llc
    admit nothing
    deny everything
    make counter accusations

  11. #11
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by filthy phil View Post
    i wrote the atf regarding this and got this response. changed my name for this quote
    Ok so it looks to me from your atf letter that if I wanted (as an example) go SBR on my Group Uzi I would file the form 1. Then wait for approval and my tax stamp to show up on the approved form. Then put in a short original length uzi barrel and i'm done. No engraving by me required. Is that your take on the information as well?

  12. #12
    Moderator & Team Gunsnet SILVER 01/2011 AKTexas's Avatar

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    I like this,bypass the engraving and the fudd engravers in this town.I have called many of them and most won't touch anything other high end pistols and rifles.
    NRA LIFER
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  13. #13
    Senior Member filthy phil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    Ok so it looks to me from your atf letter that if I wanted (as an example) go SBR on my Group Uzi I would file the form 1. Then wait for approval and my tax stamp to show up on the approved form. Then put in a short original length uzi barrel and i'm done. No engraving by me required. Is that your take on the information as well?
    that's it. why screw up the reciever? you may want to de-reg it later.
    which, btw, i did. sent atf a letter. took them like 2 freaking years to acknowledge it too
    admit nothing
    deny everything
    make counter accusations

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