Atomic bombings, that is.
More things for us to apologize for....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-m..._11402480.html
Atomic bombings, that is.
More things for us to apologize for....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-m..._11402480.html
"Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."
Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable
Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.
Freedom isn't free.
"Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.
My Spirit Animal has rabies.
I'd rather be an American than a Democrat.
"If you can make a man afraid, you can control him" Netflix Series, The Irregulars
Lol the bombs likely saved a few million Japanese lives by averting the invasion, but that can't be mentioned.
"And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"
Fuck em! As 5.56 just mentioned the bombs saved millions of Japanese lives. They were preparing to strap bombs on their children and arm the citizens with bamboo spears of all crazy things. We'd of killed almost every one of them if we did a land assault.
I saw a similar side article at the link that was in the "burping kid arrested" thread
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ato...ped-hiroshima/
kinda made me wondered about that place
For peace of mind, resign as general manager of the universe
The US spent decades provoking the Japanese, so I do lay all of the blame for conflict with the Japanese on the US federal government, which as we all know, represents pure evil.
The west encouraged Japan to build an empire during the age of imperialism and then stabbed them in the back post-WW1 when the Japanese were on the allied side. After bad blood was created between the west and Japan, the US continued to encroach on the Japanese in the Pacific and through a combination of economic sanctions, stifled the growth of the Japanese Empire that had previously been encouraged by the west.
Guys, calling out FDR and Truman on their bullshit is not anti-American. Ignoring the crimes of sadistic, power hungry federal government is anti-American.
"I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"
The US leadership was completely aware of the Japanese tendency to commit sneak attacks on pacific naval bases, as they had seen an earlier "Pearl Harbor" committed against the Russians. The US manipulated the Japanese into attacking in the same way that western powers manipulate Arab countries in order to put radical forms of Islam into power and ensure that the US has an enemy to convince the American people to give up their paychecks and individual liberty in order to combat.
"I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"
Eisenhower on the nuclear bombings of Japan:
"In 1945 ... , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act.... During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and second because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face.' The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude, almost angrily refuting the reasons I gave for my quick conclusions."
Source: The White House Years: Mandate for Change: 1953-1956: A Personal Account (New York: Doubleday, 1963), pp. 312-313.
The US denied their terms of surrender after the first bomb, but then gave the Japanese everything they asked for following the unconditional surrender after the second bomb. Did US leadership change their minds about the Japanese terms, were they so vain that the surrender must have been unconditional even if we gave them what they wanted, or were the bombs dropped in order to test them on a civilian population in front of a nearby Soviet audience?
Last edited by FunkyPertwee; 08-09-2016 at 06:34 PM.
"I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"
Yeah, we provoked them. I guess we should not have raped nanking, tested and fielded bio weapons on the chinese and koreans. Guess we should have never kidnapped thousands of korean women into sexual slavery. I guess we should not have marched thousands of men to their deaths, beheaded our enemy once we captured them. I guess we should have continued to trade with Japan, and give them the materials to continue their racist, horrible war against asia. Who were we to take a moral stand on it, and tell them we would not sell them oil and steel and airplanes if they were doing the above?
We provoked shit. They were a horrible, shitty, dishonorable country from 1920-1945. They still refuse to admit any of their numerous horrible war crimes. WE did not make them do those things. We simply ended the fight they started with us.
Do you really think it was wrong for us to slowly end our trade with them? We started slowing it in 1937, and completely stopped all trade with them in July of 41. Was it wrong? We were upset at how they were fighting the Chinese, and their human rights violations. Hell, even GERMANS were upset by them. They attacked us because we stopped trade. Not for any other reason. Oh, they also wanted some of our possessions in the Pacific. I find it detestable that Americans want to question us in this. Enraging really.
I am THRILLED that we microwaved a couple hundred thousand. It saved countless American lives. And by accident, millions of Japanese. It was so clearly the moral thing to do. I only wish we had that kind of moral clarity today.
"What sick, barbaric bastards.
It's one thing to use terrorism to make a political statement, but the wanton mutilation and suffering of innocents? How does that forward your political goals? When done in the name of religion, how does that earn you brownie points with God?
Fuck religious extremism. And especially fuck the "religion of peace." "
So, lagcsocialist supports terrorism AS LONG AS ITS FOR POLITICAL ENDS....
There's the old gag about FDR provoking or knowing about the Japanese attack and allowed it to happen so he could get us into the war.
There's are some glaring problems with this that no one seems to have explained.
1. The Japanese launched a surprise attack on the US and the American people wanted JAPANESE blood.
Had FDR said that American was attacked in a Day of Infamy so we're going to war against.....Germany???? even his own party would have impeached and removed him from office.
Most Americans wanted nothing to do with another bloody European war and thought the British were trying to pull us into it to save them.
Had FDR tried to do a bait and switch from Japan to Germany the American people would have demanded his head and the congress would have rushed to give it to them. Even most Democrats were isolationist and were already suspicious of FDR's playing fast and loose with American neutrality laws.
Had he attempted to redirect our response to Germany he would have been out of office, AND HE DAMNED WELL KNEW IT.
2. FDR could not in his wildest dreams have imagined that Hitler would declare war on us.
Even Hitler's own cronies were just aghast and totally shocked at his declaration. No one had thought that he'd do any such thing.
After the war many of the surviving Nazi leaders said that that was when they first started suspecting that Hitler was insane.
There was zero reason for Hitler to declare war against us, he was already locked in a death struggle with Russia.
Any agreement with Japan for mutual defense was never anything more then boiler plate, and even the Japanese were astounded when Hitler declared war on America.
When the Japanese ambassador to German wired Japan that Germany had declared war, Tokyo had to ask him to repeat the message twice because they thought it was garbled.
So, why would FDR allow or provoke a Japanese attack knowing that he'd be forced to direct the effort toward the Japanese and not Germany?
You don't let Bob punch your brother in the nose in the hopes that your brother will let you shoot Jack.
As for the dropping of the bomb.
Lets try this:
It's 1947 and President Truman is addressing congress....at his impeachment trial.
"Ladies and Gentlemen of America, it's true that in August 1945 I had at my disposal a super weapon that could have ended the war in a matter of days with no further American casualties.
We directed the most massive and expensive program in human history to developing this unstoppable weapon against which the Japanese had no defense.
Had we used it the hundreds of thousands of American servicemen that have been killed, wounded, and maimed in the on-going invasion of Japan would not have been.
The millions of Japanese civilians and soldiers killed so far would not have been killed.
The fighting that still rages in the mountains of Japan would have ended in the Fall of 1945, instead of continuing for as long as the predicted early 1960's.
Instead of using this super weapon to save many American and Japanese lives, I decided not to use it so that future Left wing college professors, politicians, and movie stars would not think ill of America.
You have the satisfaction of knowing that your sons and husbands have died or come home horribly maimed and many more will follow in the years to come in order so that future Leftists will not hate America more then they already do".
How do you think that would have played?
How would that have played is a great statement. If your non-bomb drop story was true, many of us would not be here today. I know for a fact that after my father recovered from wounds received stopping Hitler, he and his unit were on standby in Germany awaiting the possible invasion of Japan. THANK GOD FOR THE BOMB!
Originally Posted by Ruskiegunlover
I just realized you were probably responding to the article, not my post, so here's my re-edit.Then I guess I'll be done in this thread.
Yeah I guess blaming it all on the US government is over-the-top. Japan obviously did play there role, however I still support the narrative of my original post, if in fact that was what you were responding to.
Last edited by FunkyPertwee; 08-10-2016 at 12:24 AM.
"I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"
The head of the FCC RID was tasked by USN to follow a "hostile" fleet as it made its way across the Pacific two weeks before Pearl. The fedz knew it was coming and let it happen as this was FDR's ticket into ww2 as he always wanted, this is why they got the carriers out of port but left the aging battleships to be sunk in shallow water, wich makes raising and repairing them much easier.
"And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"
FDR maneuvered Japan into an attack and also historians found evidence that General Claire Chennault had a plan to pre-emptively strike Tokyo Harbor by Spring of 1942 if we were not at war with Japan by then. Japan stumbled right in to the 'rope a dope' that FDR had set for them. And if we got them to strike first, we would have the moral high ground and public outrage that would rally the public around the war effort.
Japan was reacting to the oil Embargo that the US led against them. They had only 18 months left of oil reserves and then complete wipe out of their industrial capacity. FDR KNEW that this would provoke them into doing something. Ironically, Admiral Yamamoto also warned his leaders that war with America was a bad idea, saying that he could only guarantee about 6 months of victory and then it was over. America with it's industrial might, fighting will and large population would be a juggernaut that no one could stop.
People blindly point out the evils that the Japanese Empire did in Manchuria, Nanjing, and others, but remember that though it was horrible, it didn't rise to the occasion of a 'war footing' with America. I'm pretty sure FDR WANTED a reason to get INTO a fight with the Axis, he really wanted IN as a pretense to stop Hitler but Germany didn't give him any real reason to declare war. We didn't have a mutual defense treaty with the UK and China, so the attacks on them by the Axis could go on and the U.S. wasn't bound to do anything. The American Public at the time was Isolationist and didn't want to become entangled in a foreign war, much less two of them. But the axis did have a mutual defense treaty, so an attack on one of them was an attack on all of them.
Now in the big picture, it was a good thing for the world that the U.S. stopped both Nazi Germany AND Imperial Japan. I cringe to think what the world would be like if we kept out of WW2, even though we 'could' have.
As for the Atomic Bombs as war crimes, we've heard these idiotic charges before. I heard them back in the 1960s. I still think Japan was better off being forced to surrender QUICKLY, so that the fucking SOVIETS couldn't sweep down from the mainland and grab land and territory. I KNEW Truman was worried about that, so he had to get Japan to surrender and not dilly dally about it. Japan's entire post war economic success story hinged on Japan being 100% captured by America.
Provoke Japan, ... Japan didn't take much to be provoked. They were full of themselves as they ran amok in China. They got pissed because we cut off their oil that they needed to wage war on China with.
As to did FDR or the military know of the attack coming to Pearl I say this. As a high school student I became friends with a man that was a communications specialist on a Destroyer. On Dec. 7th the fleet was ordered to radio silence. Under no circumstance were they to use radio. His ship was at sea west of Hawaii and they saw the waves of Japanese planes flying over. Junior officers on the ship were begging the captain to radio a report and he refused due to the order for radio silence. Yeah, I think it was a set up to get the US into the war because FDR's people wanted no part of another foreign war. This was the only way to get America pissed off and wanting to get into it full throttle.
Really no different than.. oh... a bunch of saudis fly planes into shit and you go after- A mountainous shithole OR Launch a full invasion into a country over "personal" reasons / WMD's .
Big whoop if thousands of guys die or are injured for life. You and your war profiteer buddies got rich, Then you get richer destabilizing that whole part of the world BUT without americans involved. Whos cares about the 300,000+ that have died since then , it's only money.
PRAISE KEK
FATHER OF CHAOS
BRINGER OF DAY
IN THY WEBBED HANDS WE PLACE OUR FAITH
SHADILAY, SHADILAY!
Interesting takes on all this, especially the story about the destroyer crewman. The story I made mention of the FCC RID tracking a "hostile" fleet via radio direction finding is in a work by the guy who was the head of the FCC RID through all of ww2, I'll provide a link to the pdf and you can read about it, he only mentions it in a single sentence but he knew that FDR and at least some mil officers knew the attack was imminent. The radio silence ordered on US ships and installations would only help the FCC RID do its job by eliminating a lot of hf morse traffic that had to be id'd, but even if the USN wasn't at radio silence the RID knew who was who in hf radio as the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) used Kana morse code while the USN used American or International morse as well as their radio procedures being completely different.
As to war guilt, the Japanese were being stymied in China by the same thing that stymied Germany in Russia; the vastness of the mainland and the masses of Chinese, IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) had told the emperor that they'd have it all in something like 6 months, instead they were there for a decade almost, and still hadn't made a dent into China proper, and this Chinese venture had put Japan in a very bad light around the world. The Japanese Military had done studies with the most advanced theorems of the time, as did most every other advanced nation, and calculated they could run rampant for 2 years and then would be driven back and utterly defeated. After the war when this became known to US investigators and war crimes tribunals, they asked the Japanese why they started the war with America. The Japanese replied that they knew America would attack in a few years time when Japan's supplies had run out and that Japan would thusly lose from the beginning, if war is being forced on you why not do some damage while you still can? Yamamoto wasn't alone in suggesting America was a sleeping giant best left undisturbed, and there'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass, they all knew what was going to happen in the end regardless of what they did.
http://fccrid.org/index.html
Last edited by 5.56NATO; 08-10-2016 at 03:46 PM.
"And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"
Too bad there aren't hardly any WWII Pacific Theater American vets left to weigh in on this anymore. My dad was a captain in the 5th Marines 1st Division and dealt with these brainwashed animals for 3 years. If you want to find out how the Imperial Army truly operated during that time check out Eugene Sledge's memoir, "With The Old Breed". If the atomic bombs had not been dropped when they were there would have been a blood-letting of epic proportion on both sides as the Allies invaded Japan. And fuck any revisionist America-hating asswipes who try to claim otherwise.
Nietzsche: From life's school of war: what does not kill me makes me stronger.
We cut off their oil PERIOD. Not just to wage war, but their entire economy and industry (even for non war related material) would shut down. It was a pretty BIG taunt by FDR and he KNEW it was make them strike. Japan really wanted the Burma Oil fields so that they would not be subject to being 'held hostage' by the West for their oil, but Burma belonged to the British, and Japan KNEW, once they attacked the Brits, America would eventually weigh in. You're right that the nationalists were so full of themselves because they had won tons of engagements against poorly equipped and poorly trained enemies.
But ultimately it was a good thing. The hardcore militarists in Japan had to be destroyed. Unlike ISLAM, however, when the Japanese Lost WW2, the remaining hardcore militarists committed seppuku. This paved the wave for other groups to gain power. Sadly, a lot of the civilian government post war had CLOSET COMMUNISTS in them. And tons of Pacifists.
Sad that America's leaders don't realize how things go when a certain faction of a group of people MUST be destroyed in order for peace to Prevail. Obama won't go after ISIS or any other Islamist threat with any real seriousness. And rather than excising the cancer (without killing the patient) like we did against Japan and Germany, we just let the cancer sit and surge back with a vengeance.
"Sad that America's leaders don't realize how things go when a certain faction of a group of people MUST be destroyed in order for peace to Prevail. Obama won't go after ISIS or any other Islamist threat with any real seriousness."
That's because;
“Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
Meaning he stands with muslims against America.
Also, I wonder why the bed wetters aren't crying about Dresden and other German cities that were deliberately transformed into rubble and ash by Allied bombers?
Last edited by 5.56NATO; 08-11-2016 at 12:30 PM.
"And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"
The same reason why they don't cry about Tokyo or Osaka or other major Japanese cities, which were destroyed over and over again by conventional firebombs. Actually the death toll from BOTH atomic bombs was less than 1 night's raid toll in Tokyo.
It was the nature of the bombs, aka ushering in 'the atomic age' which was notable, not the death tolls. It was more 'fear' of the existence of nuclear weapons in the world of men, than anything else. Tons of folks were convinced all the way until the fall of communism that an 'Atomic world war 3' was just around the corner.
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