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Thread: Top 10 problems with the theory of evolution.

  1. #1
    was_peacemaker
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    Top 10 problems with the theory of evolution.

    I am not saying all evolution is wrong but it seems some folks in the media and in science have turned it into an infallible religion. These make pretty good sense. I like number six, and number

    The failure of chemistry to explain the origin of the genetic code. (For details, see "The origin of life remains a mystery" or "Problems with the Natural Chemical 'Origin of Life'");
    The failure of neo-Darwinian evolution to explain the biogeographical distribution of many species. (For details, see "Sea Monkey Hypotheses Refute the NCSE's Biogeography Objections to Explore Evolution" or "Sea Monkeys Are the Tip of the Iceberg: More Biogeographical Conundrums for Neo-Darwinism");

    All in all a pretty good read.
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/07...o_1062011.html

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    How many of a new critter have to be born before it can take off as its own species?

    Keep in mind how difficult it is to find a random mutation that doesn't kill you, and the fact that a random mutation resulting in an improvement has never been observed, and how difficult it would be to have two creatures receive the same random mutation within each other's reproductive lifespans.
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  3. #3
    was_peacemaker
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    How many of a new critter have to be born before it can take off as its own species?

    Keep in mind how difficult it is to find a random mutation that doesn't kill you, and the fact that a random mutation resulting in an improvement has never been observed, and how difficult it would be to have two creatures receive the same random mutation within each other's reproductive lifespans.
    Never thought of it that way but you are right about random mutations. Would disease like rabies, Hep C, AIDS, and Ebola count as random mutations?

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by was_peacemaker View Post
    Never thought of it that way but you are right about random mutations. Would disease like rabies, Hep C, AIDS, and Ebola count as random mutations?
    Yes they would.

    Microevolution is a proven fact and not up for debate, as it can be observed directly by human beings.
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    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    How many of a new critter have to be born before it can take off as its own species?

    Keep in mind how difficult it is to find a random mutation that doesn't kill you, and the fact that a random mutation resulting in an improvement has never been observed, and how difficult it would be to have two creatures receive the same random mutation within each other's reproductive lifespans.
    Both male and female wouldn't have to have the mutation for it to be passed on to offspring.

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking350 View Post
    Both male and female wouldn't have to have the mutation for it to be passed on to offspring.
    It would for it to qualify as a new species.
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    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    It would for it to qualify as a new species.
    I'm not a geneticist, but I would think that depends on whether the gene is dominant or recessive. Speciation doesn't happen in a single generation. As long as the gene is passed on to offspring it will be in the gene pool. As it spreads through the pool over generations, the likelihood of two mating individuals having the gene increases.

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking350 View Post
    I'm not a geneticist, but I would think that depends on whether the gene is dominant or recessive. Speciation doesn't happen in a single generation. As long as the gene is passed on to offspring it will be in the gene pool. As it spreads through the pool over generations, the likelihood of two mating individuals having the gene increases.
    What would depend on a gene being dominant or recessive?

    What defines a species is being reproductively compatible only with creatures of that same species.

    So how many random mutations with positive outcomes has to occur to a creature before it's offspring are no longer reproductively compatible with members of its parent's species? And to how many creatures will there have to be identical random mutations present in?
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    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    What would depend on a gene being dominant or recessive?

    I don't know what is necessary for a gene to be dominant, only the results. When a dominant gene is passed from a parent to a child, the child displays that characteristic no matter the what the corresponding gene passed by the other parent is. For a recessive trait to show in the offspring both parents must pass the recessive gene to the offspring.

    What defines a species is being reproductively compatible only with creatures of that same species.

    Actually, your statement isn't true. Different species can mate and produce offspring, though they will generally be infertile. The mule (63 chromosomes) is the result of a horse (64 chromosomes) and donkey (62 Chromosomes) breeding. I could be wrong, but I would think speciation has occurred when there is enough genetic difference to make reproduction either impossible or the offspring is infertile. While it may not be practical for a Great Dane and a Chihuahua to mate, they could and the offspring would be fertile since they are still of the same species.

    So how many random mutations with positive outcomes has to occur to a creature before it's offspring are no longer reproductively compatible with members of its parent's species? And to how many creatures will there have to be identical random mutations present in?

    The answer to that question is way beyond my knowledge.
    To set the record straight, I am a Christian and believe in God. I also think that evolution is more likely than not. I don't have a problem with God using evolution as his way to create the life on this planet.
    Last edited by Viking350; 10-24-2014 at 05:41 PM.

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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    The Galapagos islands are still a pretty damn good physical lab for studying evolution in action, as is Madagascar.
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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    The Galapagos islands are still a pretty damn good physical lab for studying evolution in action, as is Madagascar.
    Evolution or natural selection?
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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Evolution or natural selection?
    Evolution.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

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  13. #13
    was_peacemaker
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Evolution or natural selection?
    What would be the difference?

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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by was_peacemaker View Post
    What would be the difference?
    Evolution is the process by which a new species arises; natural selection the process by which it find a niche in the ecosystem where it can propagate and grow...
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by was_peacemaker View Post
    What would be the difference?
    Natural selection is a proven fact, while evolution is a fictional religion.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    ...while evolution is a fictional religion.
    The 14 different species (all from a common ancestor) of tortoise on the various islands at Galapagos would beg to differ. And then there are the finches...
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

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  17. #17
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Natural selection is a proven fact, while evolution is a fictional religion.
    Ok, my less inflammatory response is that natural selection is a subtractive process which weeds out unsuccessful attributes, while evolution is an additive process which adds desirable genes and their resulting attributes.

    Natural selection can cause previously undesirable genes to become more common as they aid a species's survival in a new environment, however the genes must already be present, as natural selection cannot itself provide new genetic information.
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  18. #18
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    The 14 different species (all from a common ancestor) of tortoise on the various islands at Galapagos would beg to differ. And then there are the finches...
    I can't speak about these turtles because I am unfamiliar with them.

    But I would ask, did the common ancestor not contain within its genes all of the attributes which would appear in its more specialized descendents?

    And if not, then what was the mechanism which caused the appearance of the new genes?
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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    And then there are the finches...
    Are you talking about the finches whose beaks became larger or smaller depending on which food was available for them to eat? If so, over time the beaks were found to maintain a fairly steady average size, and they stayed finches.
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    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Actually, evolution is the process, while natural selection is the mechanism of change and adaptation -- speciation over time.

    Some of you guys who are still in college should really consider taking an intro-level biology course for one of your science cores, if you haven't already fulfilled them all. It will truly blow your mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by peacemaker
    The failure of chemistry to explain the origin of the genetic code. (For details, see "The origin of life remains a mystery" or "Problems with the Natural Chemical 'Origin of Life'");
    This one is actually pretty easy to explain. Every living thing on this planet is primarily made of of only a handful of essential organic elements: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and phosphorus. Every cell in our body, even the nucleic acids that make up our genetic code.

    The real conundrum is how all these inanimate elements ever gave rise to neural networks, electrical flow throughout our brains and nervous systems, that allowed for consciousness to ever arise.

    Indeed, it's not our existence as life-forms that is so hard to understand, it is our sentience (capacity for sensation and feeling) that is the real amazing freak accident of nature here.
    Last edited by LAGC; 10-24-2014 at 11:25 PM.
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