.270 Winchester for SHTF? Sounds good.

[Aggressive Perfector]

I know most people think of this as a deer hunting round, but the lead free Commiefornian variation of this round seems to show some serious AP ability.

[Schuetzenman]

Speed and hardness for the win. Remington makes a Bronze tipped .30 cal. bullet. I'd like to see that one in a .308 or .30-06 tried on that plate as well.

[Aggressive Perfector]

I'm thinking a 30-06 in one of its hotter loads with this sort of ammo would be excellent, as last time I saw the true AP 30-06 it was rather pricey for being (probably) surplus.

[Schuetzenman]

Yes real AP ball for the .30-06 is very expensive now. Once upon a time it wasn't so bad. One smart thing I did was buy a bunch of bulk pulled AP bullets before 2000. Less than a nickel each. Some day I may get around to loading a few.

[Aggressive Perfector]

Very nice. Other than 30-06 and .270, I wonder what other rounds would work well for this task in this wonderful new Commiefornian ammo? 7.62x54R perhaps? I know it's just a hair milder than 30-06, but with something harder than a mild steel core I bet it could fuck some shit up. Standard 147 grain ball surplus rounds don't penetrate AR500 plates.

[Schuetzenman]

As with all armor it just takes more speed and a very pointy hard bullet or bullet with a very hard pointy core. .300 Magnums sporting some of those Remington bronze tipped rounds probably would do a lot toward getting through the hard plate. You realize most "civilian" peoples won't have any body armor at all so pretty much a .22 LR will get through what they would be wearing.

Head shots don't need AP ammo.

[Aggressive Perfector]

Fair point, but hard targets are also a threat.

[Schuetzenman]

Fair point, but hard targets are also a threat.

The ultimate hard target killer is .50 BMG unless you want to talk an RPG7. Taken the armor thing a notch up think Ferret vehicle. Your own mobile full head to toe body armor with turret and gun ports.

[Aggressive Perfector]

Yes, but how many of us can afford a .50 BMG rifle and the ammo to feed it? Let alone carry it long distances. Cheap alternatives that can still punch holes in hard targets are good to have. I mean, surplus 7.62x54r are good enough to kill an engine (typically made from cast iron), but it doesn't perform quite so fantastically against modern hardened steel armor. As previously said about 30-06, so goes for .308/ NATO "equivalent" AP, not exactly a dime a dozen, not only in availability, but also in affordability.

[Schuetzenman]

How many can afford to get a .50 cal. rifle, if patient virtually anyone. Save up. Serbu Arms BFG50 is about $2400 and only weighs 23 lbs. If it is walking on 2 legs body armor or not there are plenty of vulnerable points to target. If it is on tracks or wheels and is armored, hide.

[Dan Morris]

FWIW, that Rem Bronze Point was around in the late 40's/early 50's....it was accurate and deadly on 4 legged critters. Winchesters brain child was the OPE.....hollowpoint.
Dan

[Aggressive Perfector]

Never seen it before. Might it just be coming back into popularity for lead free ammo? I'm just guessing here but I think it's supposed to help the copper spread better, but also seems to punch holes in armor.

[NAPOTS]

The problem I'd have with .270 for shtf is that you are most likely going to be limited to your own supply. It's doubtful you will be able to police up any from someone who..doesn't need it anymore.

.223 will probably be the most common

[Aggressive Perfector]

I wouldn't use .270 as a primary by any means (I highly doubt anyone would), Just noting that having one in the arsenal could certainly do some good. You're right though, once your personal stash is out, you're out and likely won't be able to replenish it easily.

[Schuetzenman]

You're right though, once your personal stash is out, you're out and likely won't be able to replenish it easily.

IMO it isn't just .270 vulnerable to personal stash depletion. Look what happened after Sandy Hook massacre, for a time nearly every caliber was unobtanium. To this day I still can't go into a store and expect to see a brick or .22 LR ammo from any manufacturer. In a real world wide SHTF event, (not just a 1 hour shoot em up) every round of anything would be gone in about 1 day if that from any place that sells / stocks ammo. What any of us have in any caliber is likely to be IT unless you take it off a dead person. The virtually instant run on gun shops, Walmarts, will sweep the shelves clean. I bet people will buy ammo they don't even have weapons for on speculation they might be able to use it as a bargaining chip / currency to get food or other ammo they might need.

[FunkyPertwee]

IMO it isn't just .270 vulnerable to personal stash depletion. Look what happened after Sandy Hook massacre, for a time nearly every caliber was unobtanium. To this day I still can't go into a store and expect to see a brick or .22 LR ammo from any manufacturer. In a real world wide SHTF event, (not just a 1 hour shoot em up) every round of anything would be gone in about 1 day if that from any place that sells / stocks ammo. What any of us have in any caliber is likely to be IT unless you take it off a dead person. The virtually instant run on gun shops, Walmarts, will sweep the shelves clean. I bet people will buy ammo they don't even have weapons for on speculation they might be able to use it as a bargaining chip / currency to get food or other ammo they might need.

+1

I'd like to add that the idea that military/police compatibility will help you is foolish as well. They will be taking your weapons, not giving you ammo for them. And if you plan on taking ammo off of corpses, then there is no need to have a weapon in that caliber already because any person carrying ammunition will obviously have a weapon in that caliber as well.

[FunkyPertwee]

As with all armor it just takes more speed and a very pointy hard bullet or bullet with a very hard pointy core. .300 Magnums sporting some of those Remington bronze tipped rounds probably would do a lot toward getting through the hard plate. You realize most "civilian" peoples won't have any body armor at all so pretty much a .22 LR will get through what they would be wearing.

Head shots don't need AP ammo.

In the era of $75 dollar steel level 3 plates, I wouldn't count on it.

The average ghetto thug won't have armor, but I would be suspicious of anybody who looks like they might know how to outfit themselves for a fight.

[Aggressive Perfector]

Schuetz, that'd be why any sane person stocks up on ammo ahead of time. Out of every run on ammo I make, x ammount i put aside for shooting, the other roughly 80% is for stashing (unless I just got a wild hair up my ass to buy a few mags worth just to shoot that day). Occasionally, I'll buy the biggest bulk pack I can afford just to add to the stash. It gets put up, and then I consider it to be gone untill that rainy day hits.

Pertwee, the idea behind carrying weapons that use common LE & Military calibers isn't that hypothetical LEO and "military" bad guys will be handing anybody ammunition, so much as you'll be able to replenish ammo (even if only rarely) by scavenging from their corpses provided they don't make it a point to strip their dead of all valuable ammo, weapons, and such.

[FunkyPertwee]

Pertwee, the idea behind carrying weapons that use common LE & Military calibers isn't that hypothetical LEO and "military" bad guys will be handing anybody ammunition, so much as you'll be able to replenish ammo (even if only rarely) by scavenging from their corpses provided they don't make it a point to strip their dead of all valuable ammo, weapons, and such.

I spoke to that scenario in my post. Any corpse with ammo will have a weapon to match it.

[Aggressive Perfector]

I see your point, but even then, can you ever have too many rifles stashed?