Ohio House Comitte Passes Restrictions on Abortion

[Aggressive Perfector]

Ohio must be on a roll lately. If this becomes law, once the fetus develops a heartbeat it will be illegal to terminate the prgnancy (and unless I'm mistaken be treated as murder).
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/...committee.html

[Schuetzenman]

On the whole I agree with such an interpretation.

[Krupski]

Ohio must be on a roll lately. If this becomes law, once the fetus develops a heartbeat it will be illegal to terminate the prgnancy (and unless I'm mistaken be treated as murder).
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/...committee.html

I believe that a baby is a "baby" at the moment of conception, the thought of abortion makes me sick and I don't support it at all.

BUT...

I also don't support any government (state or federal) making more laws to control our lives.

If a woman wants to get an abortion, she's going to do it regardless of "law", so at least it should be performed by a real doctor in a hospital setting as opposed to a witch doctor doing it in a dark back alley.

The woman will eventually have to answer to God, and that's a much bigger deal than "breaking a law".

So as much as I am against abortion, I am more against government interference in private affairs and therefore I vote on this bill.

[FunkyPertwee]

Not a bad interpretation.

I believe a life is a life as soon as a zygote forms. However, I would allow abortions for any reason in the first trimester, or until the first heart beat, or wherever you want to draw the line so that the victims of rape or incest don't have to prove they were raped to anybody, they just have to make it to the doctor ASAP.

And of course abortions to save the mothers life are always acceptable if thats what they have to do.

[Aggressive Perfector]

Funky, my thoughts precisely.

[JTHunter]

Sorry folks but I don't agree.
While I dislike abortions, the idea of the government "mandating" some fanciful timeline is just plain wrong.
What if the female is the victim of rape or incest? Fear may keep her from getting help soon enough by those standards. Now, compound that by a female that is too young (and fearful) or too mentally handicapped to understand what is happening to them.
Do you really want to force someone with mental capacity of 12 years or less (for whatever reason) to have a baby that they can never hope to raise or support?

This is another case of where the government needs to "BUTT OUT"!!

[raxar]

If abortion is murder than you have to treat it like any other murder. Making special rules for it is saying that some lives are worth less than others.

[Ruskiegunlover]

Exactly, you are in good company if you believe you know when it officially is a 'life' worthy of life. You are pronouncing it 'worthy' of life when you declare it IS a ife and imply it should therefore be allowed to live, or at a minimum be harder to kill. Thats disgusting. Thats also like a lot of german people 70 years ago who also thought they too knew when life was life and was worthy of living. Guess for some people thats good company, but not for me. Its a life the moment the two meet. Its a different dna strand, a seperate living organism. Funny, in the same vain as the nazi's, people want to say that a small, 2 celled organism with its own dna and genetics isn't a life, or a living organism seperate unto itself, but are willing to clasify a virus or bacteria as a living organism. Fucking disgusting. But I also understand how hopeless this is. Right will never win out over wrong in our country any longer. Whatever is easiest, what is desired at the moment, laziness, atheism, and immediate gratification will be the triumphant things that drive us forward to our destruction. This idea that to hell with it, its not a 'life' until some arbitrary point that most cannot agree on, therefore its ok for stupid and drunk college girl to abort it after a nights mistake at a party. Or, the guy decided he didn't want a relationship, and you decide you don't 'want' the kid. Or, as has been proven to be the case in a large number of abortions, the baby was not the sex desired, so cancel it and try again.

We truly live in a society and culture that is devoid of morality, on any level. And as such, we deserve everything coming to us.

[ltorlo64]

Sorry folks but I don't agree.
While I dislike abortions, the idea of the government "mandating" some fanciful timeline is just plain wrong.
What if the female is the victim of rape or incest? Fear may keep her from getting help soon enough by those standards. Now, compound that by a female that is too young (and fearful) or too mentally handicapped to understand what is happening to them.
Do you really want to force someone with mental capacity of 12 years or less (for whatever reason) to have a baby that they can never hope to raise or support?

This is another case of where the government needs to "BUTT OUT"!!

There are about 4 million children born in the US each year. If we take that number as the total number of pregnancies (this disregards abortions and miscarriages) we can use that to determine the percentage of pregnancies caused by rape and incest. As there is little to know information on incest so I will assume that the same number of pregnancies will be caused by incest as are caused by rape.

It is estimated that somewhere between 3,200 and 50,000 rapes result in a pregnancy so for calculations I am taking the mid point of the range which is 23,400 pregnancies. As I said, to account for pregnancies from incest I am going to double this number to 46,800. There are about 4 million pregnancies each year (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm) meaning that rape and incest account for about 1% of all pregnancies.

The Guttmacher Institute, an offshoot of Planned Parent Hood, reports (http://www.guttmacher.org/presentati...ort_slides.pdf) that in 2011 there were 1.06 million abortions in the US. If I assume that all pregnancies from rape and incest resulted in an abortion, which is not true, this would make up 4% of all abortions.

What I am attempting to show is how people use a very emotional argument, rape and incest, to justify the killing of 96% of all babies aborted each year. Protecting abortion is not about protecting woman who have been raped or the victim of incest, it is about allowing woman to legally kill another human.

As for the argument about forcing a 12 year old, or a person with the mental capacity of a 12 year old, to have a baby, my counter argument is Do you really want to kill someone who could be raised by someone else? Our government takes children away from parents for home schooling, for spanking, and for unfounded accusations and you don't think that the government could take the child and place it with much better parents. You would rather kill the baby. Interesting.

One last thing, if the baby is born and the mother kills it we expect the government to inject itself into the situation. But if the mother kills the baby before it is born we expect the government to "BUTT OUT". This makes no sense. Either the government injects itself into all situations where a human is killed by another or the government does not. I prefer the government to inject itself into killings as to not would be anarchy, or would lead to it very quickly.

[Ruskiegunlover]

There is no difference between a kid in the womb and a 2 year old. Both are entirely dependent on the parents. So post birth abortions will soon be legal, mark my words. We are sinking morally.

[raxar]

There are about 4 million children born in the US each year. If we take that number as the total number of pregnancies (this disregards abortions and miscarriages) we can use that to determine the percentage of pregnancies caused by rape and incest. As there is little to know information on incest so I will assume that the same number of pregnancies will be caused by incest as are caused by rape.

It is estimated that somewhere between 3,200 and 50,000 rapes result in a pregnancy so for calculations I am taking the mid point of the range which is 23,400 pregnancies. As I said, to account for pregnancies from incest I am going to double this number to 46,800. There are about 4 million pregnancies each year (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm) meaning that rape and incest account for about 1% of all pregnancies.

The Guttmacher Institute, an offshoot of Planned Parent Hood, reports (http://www.guttmacher.org/presentati...ort_slides.pdf) that in 2011 there were 1.06 million abortions in the US. If I assume that all pregnancies from rape and incest resulted in an abortion, which is not true, this would make up 4% of all abortions.

What I am attempting to show is how people use a very emotional argument, rape and incest, to justify the killing of 96% of all babies aborted each year. Protecting abortion is not about protecting woman who have been raped or the victim of incest, it is about allowing woman to legally kill another human.

As for the argument about forcing a 12 year old, or a person with the mental capacity of a 12 year old, to have a baby, my counter argument is Do you really want to kill someone who could be raised by someone else? Our government takes children away from parents for home schooling, for spanking, and for unfounded accusations and you don't think that the government could take the child and place it with much better parents. You would rather kill the baby. Interesting.

One last thing, if the baby is born and the mother kills it we expect the government to inject itself into the situation. But if the mother kills the baby before it is born we expect the government to "BUTT OUT". This makes no sense. Either the government injects itself into all situations where a human is killed by another or the government does not. I prefer the government to inject itself into killings as to not would be anarchy, or would lead to it very quickly.

Ah, but the reason for the rape/incest argument is more insidious. One must remember that liberals think that the reason conservatives are opposed to abortion is because they hate women and want to keep them marginalized. Abortion is the ultimate form of women's liberation. When you concede on rape/incest in confirms that you don't really consider it murder and they justify their idea that you're a misogynist

[ltorlo64]

Ah, but the reason for the rape/incest argument is more insidious. One must remember that liberals think that the reason conservatives are opposed to abortion is because they hate women and want to keep them marginalized. Abortion is the ultimate form of women's liberation. When you concede on rape/incest in confirms that you don't really consider it murder and they justify their idea that you're a misogynist

It is not lost on me. The logic being if you can get someone to compromise a core, moral, belief, you can get them to compromise on anything.

[5.56NATO]

It's a womans god-given right to pay a mass murderer and their helpers to rip her baby apart limb from limb in her womb, usualy after buring that baby with agony-inducing chemicals, and then vaccuuming the remains out.....




“Kasey Locksworth: THRU UP ALL OVER MY ED HARDY SKIRT THIS MORNING…DONT KNO WHETHER IT’S MORNING SICKNESS OR THE 10 SHOTS OF BACARDI LAST NIGHT…PISSED AS HELL!!! THINKING OF GETTING THE ABORTION AFTER ALL.”
3 hours ago

“Kasey Locksworth: A BIG THANKS TO MY FRIENDS Matthew Lee Massie, Savannah Westmoreland, AND Katie Ann Brantley FOR CONVINCING ME THAT GOD WILL 4GIVE ME IF I HAV AN ABORTION!!!!!!! APPOINTMENT SET FOR TOMARROW! CNT WAIT FOR THE ABORTION CELEBRATION PARTY IN PALM SPRINGS! THIS BABY DEAD.”
2 hours ago
http://theproudparents.com/post-abor...ebration-party

epic-fail-facebook-abortion-looking-hot-as-hell.jpg

[LAGC]

Either the government injects itself into all situations where a human is killed by another or the government does not.

Except that no humans are being killed when a woman aborts a zygote/embryo. The vast majority of abortions happen during the first trimester before a fetus is even formed -- a good portion of those by use of the morning-after pill.

The libertarian position is to let the woman decide what happens within her own body. The authoritarian position is to force the woman to be a brood-mare for the state.

Your authoritarian stance is noted.

[ltorlo64]

Except that no humans are being killed when a woman aborts a zygote/embryo. The vast majority of abortions happen during the first trimester before a fetus is even formed -- a good portion of those by use of the morning-after pill.

The libertarian position is to let the woman decide what happens within her own body. The authoritarian position is to force the woman to be a brood-mare for the state.

Your authoritarian stance is noted.

A libertarian stance would be to realize that, except in the case of rape or incest which has been shown to be a very small percentage (less than 5%), the decision is not about what happens to the womans body but what happens to the body of the child she concieved, by her own choice. Pro-choice is not pro-choice, it is pro-death. The choice to concieve or not to concieve is made when the woman (and the man for that matter) decide to have sex. After that, the consequences of the act also affect the life of another.

Also, you might want to brush up on the development of a baby. I recommend this overview of the first trimester from the Mayo Clinic (http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...-20045302?pg=1). I doubt it will change your mind, but it is different than you think.

Your pro-murder of babies stance is also noted (but not a surprise).

[LAGC]

Come on, ltoro64, let's be honest here. You don't really believe abortion is the same as murder, nor do 99.99% of people out there. I mean, when was the last time you heard of someone holding a funeral for a miscarriage? If people really believed a developing embryo was the same thing as a fully-developed human, why the inconsistency?

No, if you really believed abortion was the same thing as murder, you'd be out there picketing abortion clinics 24/7, if not assassinating abortion doctors. After all, they're all "murderers" right? How in your right mind could you sleep at night if you truly believed people were committing "mass murder" and getting away with it?

The answer is obvious: you don't. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[ltorlo64]

Come on, ltoro64, let's be honest here. You don't really believe abortion is the same as murder, nor do 99.99% of people out there. I mean, when was the last time you heard of someone holding a funeral for a miscarriage? If people really believed a developing embryo was the same thing as a fully-developed human, why the inconsistency?

Actually I have friends who have had funerals for miscarriages. When a friend or family member has a miscarriage I treat them and do the same things as I do for a child who dies, because it was a child that died. I do my best to not be inconsistent.

No, if you really believed abortion was the same thing as murder, you'd be out there picketing abortion clinics 24/7, if not assassinating abortion doctors. After all, they're all "murderers" right? How in your right mind could you sleep at night if you truly believed people were committing "mass murder" and getting away with it?

The answer is obvious: you don't. And there's nothing wrong with that.

First, I do not picket murders, I did not picket Senator Ted Kennedy when I lived near Massachusetts, but I did point out to people he was a murderer, just as I point out that people who kill babies and call it abortion are murderers. How do I sleep at night? I do what I can to ensure people know what the truth is, that is all I can do.

Nice try with the assassination thing, though. Try to make me into the killer an abortionist is so that you can then claim I am crazy and try to bolster your position. I also do not need to worry about punishing abortionists, though I wish we could punish them. Also, it is not my job to punish, it is my job to teach and to learn, which is the same responsibility all have.

While I know we communicate often on here and we have PM'ed, I need to remind you that you do not know me and you do not know what I think. You do not know what I do and my experiences, other than what I have told you. Because of this I will have to let you know that the answer is not all that obvious. I do equate abortion with mass murder and there is nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with excusing mass murder and trying to distract from it.

I also find it interesting that when presented with an argument that is difficult for you to refute, you decide to try to talk me into realizing that I really don't mind abortion (actually, I really, really do mind the murder of innocent babies whose only crime is to be inconvenient). This reminds me of a story about a serpent, a woman, and a tree of fruit.

[blacksheep]

Except that no humans are being killed when a woman aborts a zygote/embryo. The vast majority of abortions happen during the first trimester before a fetus is even formed -- a good portion of those by use of the morning-after pill.

The libertarian position is to let the woman decide what happens within her own body. The authoritarian position is to force the woman to be a brood-mare for the state.

Your authoritarian stance is noted.

It is unfortunate that your mother missed her opportunity.

[LAGC]

First, I do not picket murders, I did not picket Senator Ted Kennedy when I lived near Massachusetts, but I did point out to people he was a murderer, just as I point out that people who kill babies and call it abortion are murderers. How do I sleep at night? I do what I can to ensure people know what the truth is, that is all I can do.
..
..
I do equate abortion with mass murder and there is nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with excusing mass murder and trying to distract from it.

All I know is that if I really thought mass murder was going on in this country every time a zygote got flushed down the toilet after a woman took a morning-after pill, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more than just complaining on an online bulletin board system about it.

What you feel comfortable with doing, of course, is up to you and your conscience.

All I'm suggesting is that you might want to just step back and look inward a bit and ask yourself how much you really believe in it. Because your actions don't seem to match your words.

Just sayin'...

[ltorlo64]

All I know is that if I really thought mass murder was going on in this country every time a zygote got flushed down the toilet after a woman took a morning-after pill, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more than just complaining on an online bulletin board system about it.

What you feel comfortable with doing, of course, is up to you and your conscience.

All I'm suggesting is that you might want to just step back and look inward a bit and ask yourself how much you really believe in it. Because your actions don't seem to match your words.

Just sayin'...

How do you know that all I am doing is working against it here, how do you know what my actions are? Just sayin'...that you don't know me or what I do except for what I tell you. I have and continue to take a stand, publically, politically, and the way I live my life, against abortion. I know it is difficult in this day and age to believe that people actually allow their beliefs the dictate how they live (actually it is impossible to not), but there are some of us out there. On the other hand, people like you want those of us who believe in life to do something that can be construed as crazy to discredit our beliefs. Don't for a moment think I don't know what you are doing. You actions still remind me of the story of a serpent, a woman, and a tree of fruit.

While you continue to distract, you also continue to not respond to my post about when people should be making this "choice" about babies, and it is not after they are concieved. It seems that you have decided that attacking the character of someone you have never met is the easier option.