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Thread: Subdivision home defense weapons

  1. #1

    Subdivision home defense weapons

    I live in a small (2k+ sf) home, in a subdivision built in the 1960's. Stick built homes, some with above-ground bottom floors sheathed in concrete. All neighbors are within thirty feet.

    I've chosen a Mossberg .410 and a Taurus Judge Public Defender with HD shells as my in-the-house defense weapon of choice. I think shooting a 9mm or hotter handgun round would be a mistake if something happened here, and might result in over penetration. I chose .410 for the shotgun because my experience with 12 or 20guage is that the noise and flash would be way too much for the environment.

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Team GunsNet Platinum 12/2012 l921428x's Avatar

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    Welcome to this forum. Sounds to me what you have is fine. What material is your home made of?
    I do not think a 9mm is hot enough to leave your home and penetrate another, I am no expert but these are my thoughts.
    Enjoy!

    There are some very formidible .410 shot shell now.
    Last edited by l921428x; 09-27-2011 at 04:16 AM.
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  3. #3
    Crazy enough 9mm has more penetration in obstacles than .223
    Being ready is not what matters. What matters is winning after you get there.
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  4. #4
    Yeah, most 9mm rolls out of the tube at more than 2000 fps. It'll go through my wall and into the next house. It's why I shoot HP in my EDC. Don't want to hurt the neighbors.

    I'm intending to stop the threat, not kill my friends.
    Last edited by missourishooter; 09-27-2011 at 05:44 AM.

  5. #5
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by missourishooter View Post
    Yeah, most 9mm rolls out of the tube at more than 2000 fps. It'll go through my wall and into the next house. It's why I shoot HP in my EDC. Don't want to hurt the neighbors.

    I'm intending to stop the threat, not kill my friends.
    A nope, more like 1200 fps out of a handgun.

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    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by missourishooter View Post
    I live in a small (2k+ sf) home, in a subdivision built in the 1960's. Stick built homes, some with above-ground bottom floors sheathed in concrete. All neighbors are within thirty feet.

    I've chosen a Mossberg .410 and a Taurus Judge Public Defender with HD shells as my in-the-house defense weapon of choice. I think shooting a 9mm or hotter handgun round would be a mistake if something happened here, and might result in over penetration. I chose .410 for the shotgun because my experience with 12 or 20guage is that the noise and flash would be way too much for the environment.

    Your thoughts?
    Welcome to Gunsnet!

    For home defense, nothing says "get the hell out of my house" like the sound of a shotgun being chambered... but shotguns are long and may present a problem if you need to maneuver around to a different spot or different room.

    Your Taurus pistol, on the other hand, would put really serious hurt on a bad guy and being small, it wouldn't get in it's own way.

    As far as "noise or flash"? Are you kidding me? If one or two drug crazed guys break into your house and rush at you with a knife, are you going to worry about waking up your neighbors with a few big "booms"?

    FLASH (muzzle flash) may, however, be a problem for YOU. If it's dark and you are dark adapted, the first flash will leave you dark blind for a while.

    As far as handguns go... a 9mm or .45ACP with good quality hollowpoints (like Federal HydraShok) would be nicely effective and probably have much less muzzle flash than your Taurus.

    What I carry is an old 1920 Colt M1911 pistol (military 45). In the nightstand is an AMT "Backup" mini pistol also in .45ACP.

    Any bad guy who threatens my family or me is going to have several hundred grains of lead in his gut (or face or both).

    (the rest of you guys - no comments about that basement dude! he wasn't threatening me).

    Again, welcome to Gunsnet, be safe and have fun!

    -- Roger

    (edit to add): Maybe you would also want a little laser on the pistol. It would make aiming easier and merely seeing the red dot on his chest may be enough to stop the bad guy... it's great if you can subdue the bad guy without having to shoot him.
    Last edited by Krupski; 09-27-2011 at 08:10 AM. Reason: typo... arghhhh
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    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    A nope, more like 1200 fps out of a handgun.
    Correct. LIGHT (115 grain) 9mm rounds, out of a +P+ load, barely breaks Mach 1 (which is 1125 FPS). A .45ACP is much less... 800 or so FPS. But it's heavy and E=1/2MV^2, so if you can't have V, you can make it up with M...
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    Welcome aboard! You'll like it here.

    I don't know much about it, but it seems to me that frangible pistol ammo might be a consideration, as I believe it breaks up when it hits something.

    On the other hand, you need some serious ammo in case the perp is hiding behind the refrigerator or something of that ilk. In that case, you would want to shoot through the object to get him, rather than going face-to-face with him.

    In a situation such as that, you have to remember your first duty is to protect you and your family. You can't be Mr. Nice Guy.

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    Team GunsNet Platinum 12/2012 l921428x's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solidus-snake View Post
    Crazy enough 9mm has more penetration in obstacles than .223
    Really how is that? But I still think realistically a 9 is not going to go through the wall of my home then penetrate the wall of another home 30' away.
    Then again Missourishooter you can always buy a small shotgun, some of the rounds being made now are wicked.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by l921428x View Post
    Really how is that? But I still think realistically a 9 is not going to go through the wall of my home then penetrate the wall of another home 30' away.
    Then again Missourishooter you can always buy a small shotgun, some of the rounds being made now are wicked.
    Wish I could find the link but there's a series of tests performed by Armalite I think and they show this. Somethin about how .223 easily fragments I think.
    Being ready is not what matters. What matters is winning after you get there.
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    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Go to the Box O Truth guys. They show shooting at dry wall with various weapons from Shot guns and buckshot to .45 Colt and everything in between. Draw your on conclusions afteward.

  12. #12
    Looks like a shotgun is your best bet to avoid over penetration short of frangible ammo according to the box.

  13. #13
    Forum Admin & **Team Gunsnet Silver 12/2012** Richard Simmons's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by missourishooter View Post
    I live in a small (2k+ sf) home, in a subdivision built in the 1960's. Stick built homes, some with above-ground bottom floors sheathed in concrete. All neighbors are within thirty feet.

    I've chosen a Mossberg .410 and a Taurus Judge Public Defender with HD shells as my in-the-house defense weapon of choice. I think shooting a 9mm or hotter handgun round would be a mistake if something happened here, and might result in over penetration. I chose .410 for the shotgun because my experience with 12 or 20guage is that the noise and flash would be way too much for the environment.

    Your thoughts?
    Welcome to Gunsnet. If you're comfortable and capable with the firearms and loads posted above I'd say you're good to go. That fact that you've actually put some thought into home defense and acquired the tools for that purpose puts you head and shoulders above a lot of folks.
    Gunsnet member since 1999
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  14. #14
    I alternate between a pair of 12 gauge pumps and back them with a pair of Glock 19s.

    I feel quite safe.


    Rage

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    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2014 El Jefe's Avatar

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    Exclamation

    Everyone has their likes and dislikes. Personally, my home defense weapons are a 12 gauge shotgun, loaded with 3" XX buckshot, and a Colt 1911 45acp. w/hollow points. I don't wish to scare them, I intend to kill them.
    The artist formerly known as Jefferson

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    Guns Network Lifetime Membership 01/2011 old Grump's Avatar

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    Muzzle flash from a .410 is not going to ruin your night vision. The flash light with the bright bulb you are going to use to identify your unwanted guests will most certainly ruin your night vision. You don't want to shoot the drunk neighbor trying to sneak home through the back door and if you do have a booger man You will definitely ruin his night vision and if he doesn't beat a hasty retreat the next sound he hears will ruin his day...BANG. Sound of a shotgun being readied to fire isn't going to scare a meth head and probably not a speed freak or a drunk but a face full of 4-0 buck will, especially if you alternate with slugs. Long gun and short will work but once out of the bedroom my choice would be the long gun. The little extra punch it's going to have on the bad guy makes it worth the effort and aiming is so much better. Leave the Judge for getting out of the bedroom and for your back up gun.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson View Post
    Everyone has their likes and dislikes. Personally, my home defense weapons are a 12 gauge shotgun, loaded with 3" XX buckshot, and a Colt 1911 45acp. w/hollow points. I don't wish to scare them, I intend to kill them.
    I have basically the same thing, except that my buck shot is 2 3/4".

    Oh, yeah, my intention is to stop the threat, not kill it. I do understand that in stopping the threat, the threat will most likely die, but if not, I will not be disappointed. But I am not under any misconceptions of what a couple of hollow point .45s or a load of 00 buck to center mass will do to a person.
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  18. #18
    1911 with night sights and .45HPs and 12ga shotgun with Hornady 00- buck for my home defense weapons. Wife has the HK USP-9mm with Hyrda-shoks that she goes for if im not home.
    Being ready is not what matters. What matters is winning after you get there.
    LtGen Victor H. Krulak, USMC

  19. #19
    Team GunsNet Silver 03/2014

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    Shotgun with 00 Buck and a Glock 21 with HP's.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Sidartha's Avatar

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    Really how is that? But I still think realistically a 9 is not going to go through the wall of my home then penetrate the wall of another home 30' away.
    Then again Missourishooter you can always buy a small shotgun, some of the rounds being made now are wicked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidus-snake View Post
    Wish I could find the link but there's a series of tests performed by Armalite I think and they show this. Somethin about how .223 easily fragments I think.
    Found the test.
    It was done by Olympic Arms.
    http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?opt...d=15&Itemid=26

    Toward the bottom of the page they simulate two interior walls and two exterior walls, one to represent your house and one to represent your neighbors house, then they shoot them with calibers ranging from .22lr to .223 ball and hp.
    Note the table;
    .22 LR 40 gr Lightning 899 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
    9mm 147gr Win JHP 948 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
    9mm 147 gr Win JHP 1004 fps Exited exterior wall #2
    .40 S&W 180 gr FMJ 941 fps Exited exterior wall #2
    .40 S&W 180 gr Black Talon JHP 981 fps Exited exterior wall #2
    .45 ACP 230 gr Win FMJ ball 867 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
    .45 ACP 230 gr HydraShok JHP 851 fps Exited exterior wall #2
    .223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed FMJ ball 2956 fps Exited exterior wall #2
    .223 (5.56) 55 gr Rem SP 3019 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
    .223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed JHP 3012 fps Captured in exterior wall #2
    So there ya go.
    This is just my opinion and it's entirely correct.

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